Medici blue - stirring up the pot

[Tahoe]

Thought I would stir up the paint pot one more time when it comes to Medici blue. Please see the reference below to Triumph paint code 378TR (.pdf file), and also to paint chip card possibly form a TR2 or TR3 with exact same code and called Medici blue.

all elan paint codes.pdf

(317.49 KiB) Downloaded 847 times

[trw99]

I have also noted these Medici Blue references:
Ditzler 12163
PPG: Powder Blue 12163
Martin Senour: Powder Blue 25105
ICI: Powder Blue 8013

And someone posted this modern day formula a year or so back:
PPG concept formula per pint:
DMC900 - 446.8
DMC904 - 83.5
DMC937 - 40.9
DMC901 - 60.1

Tim

[Grizzly]

Interesting, I've just checked on our Spies Hecker system and it doesn't have Lotus Medici blue but does have the Triumph colour, i checked on the Glasurit / ProSpray System's and they appear to have both but with different references? When i get five mins i'll bring up the Mixes and see if they are actually the same (unusually to have a different reference number if the mix is the same?? but that doesn't mean Lotus didn't use a different variation/Shade of the colour).

If you are happy the Triumph colour is correct though i don't see any issue in buying it from any decent Auto Paint stockiest.

[Flatcap]

medici-blue-1.gif (99 Bytes) Viewed 3199 times

Catherine de Medici (1519-1589), the Queen of Henry II of France, was a great patron of the arts and brought artists and craftsmen from Italy for her schemes. Philibert de L'Orme relates how she discussed with him the plans and decoration of the Palace of the Tuileries.

Marie de Medici (1573-1642) was also a patron of art and was the means, aided by Richelieu, of bringing from Italy into France decorative painters, who became associated with the Luxembourg and Gobelin Tapestry factories.

The Riccardi Palace in Florence, once the house of the Medicis, is, and ever was, a treasury of antiquity and of the arts. The passion for art for this family of many generations, with all its co-lateral branches, either as collectors, patrons or builders, marked an advance in the arts which posterity has perpetuated with the family name.

Medici Blue is essentially a decorative colour, especially useful for architectural work to emphasise the features of the structure or as a background for ornaments.

[nomad]

I don't have it right next to my car but both chips seem a little off compared to the original blue I sanded down to on my S1. The Triumph sample a little too dark while Flatcap's sample a little too light.

Just sayin!

Kurt.

[HAIRY]

Flat cap,
Wonderful! I will not be able to look at a Medici Blue Elan without thinking of you.
Harry

[Tahoe]

I only posted this because it just seems very different for different people. The color chip is obviously darker than other Medici blues I've seen. I've also seen cars for sale that claim to be Medici blue and are actually a Ford color per the seller. Others have had mixes made based on what they've found on their car, which makes sense to me. I have also read and been told that it's the same as the Triumph powder blue or the Sunbeam powder blue. I also owned a Frog eye Sprite that seemed very close to this color.

So what's the point? I feel that since there weren't that many colors available over the years and since this was a very popular color, that after 50+ years this color shouldn't be a guessing game. If you are restoring your car and you want the right mix there should be a consensus and "official source" for that mix. Many other colors are not a mystery since they are Austin or Jaguar or ? In the end I bet I could go down to any paint store, find a color close to the correct hue, paint the car, and put it up for sale as Medici Blue and no one would question it. Do a Google image search on Medici blue and most look to be pretty close but their are others that are obviously totally different mixes.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lotus+medici+blue&client=tablet-android-samsung&prmd=isnv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj9r9rj-MfKAhUCymMKHSJaDgEQ_AUIBygB

[john1180]

We need Famous Frank's secret formula!

[Tahoe]

We need Famous Frank's secret formula!

I'm sure it's easily found with a search here. I know his was based on actual paint on the car, and a paint can sample so it should be quite accurate.

I'm not saying any paint info listed here or elsewhere is wrong or correct, just saying it's easy to find conflicting information. I might just do some research in the next few weeks while recovering from some easy surgery and try and put together a spreadsheet based on as much published information I can find, mainly for my own education. Most of the colo(u)rs should be easy to verify, but I have a feeling there are some that are a little vague.

[john1180]

Frank doesn't have the formula for his fabulous version of Medici blue. (waiting for him to chime in) I wish he could have it scanned and color matched for the rest of us!

[nomad]

I think that George's [Cab26?] is closer to Medici blue or, at least, closer to the original color on my car. I believe Frank found that can of touch up paint but I don't believe the can actually said it was Medici blue.

The debate goes on.....

Kurt
26/3754

[nomad]

Just looked at Russ's link to Google on the subject and it appears to me that the only one that comes up close is the car I see in the second row that has the later paint coming off. Looks like the paint that is underneath is right to me. I seem to remember Gary [piss ant] Anderson's repaint of one of the "sows ear" body's as getting it pretty close with a color he mixed up himself. Has to have a little green in it.
F Frank was wondering if the paint he had was "Wedgewood" and I think that is pretty close.

Kurt.

[rgh0]

It does not surprise me that the exact shade is debated after all these years unless the original Lotus colour system mix is known which I don't think it is. I am sure that the cars originally coming out of the Lotus paint shop in the 60's had some significant variation depending on how much trouble the painter on the day took in mixing up the colours. Any colour being establish by comparing old paint may still be variable due to this.

cheers
Rohan

[Elanintheforest]

When I was playing with S2 Elans a few years ago I got to know quite a few of the Type 26 gurus in the UK, and one of them had painted his car Medici blue, which was it's original colour.

He found original paint and got some cellulose Triumph Medici Blue mixed up, as most were saying that was the colour. And it was a perfect match to the original paint he had found.

Happy with that, he got some 2 pack mixed for painting, and that looked very different, and had to be re-mixed to get it right. Now, water based paints are the norm and they seem to mix and dry differently to the 2 pack.

There doesn't seem to be a right or wrong way of getting the correct colour from formulation, and as said above, it probably varied a fair bit when new!

Mark

[Grizzly]

If it was me and the colour was so hard to get right i'd just tint it to match some original colour on the car, Any good paint shop will do this for you (for a price).

Since the lead was banned many moons ago there is little chance you'd match it edge to edge even with the same System and Mix ratio (some paint's go more milky as they cure than others so its very difficult to pin down), then when you factor in Oxidization and sun bleaching what you expect to see may be way off an Original car's colour.

As a Classic car painter i find that no paint colour matches 100% if the car is older than 1980ish. It will always need some degree of tinting if the owner is going for Concourse / Original. (bit of a heads up though (common sense really), get the guy who tints the colour for you too record what he's done or you'll never match it again)

BTW, I checked my paint schemes and my Triumph Medici blue is not the same as the Lotus one (Triumph is darker)