Lotus Elan

T9 gearbox conversion

PostPost by: alaric » Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:26 am

Hi all.

I've just taken delivery of a T9 box from Alan Voigts, which I am trying to fit to a '72 +2S130 5 speed. My original box needed a re-build, so I've opted to replace it with the ford unit.

I've found no problems with the actual box so far.

But, on offering the box up to the engine, I find that the bell housing will not push up to the engine block - there's a gap of the order of a cm or so.

I think the input shaft on the gearbox is too long - comparing it to the original 5 speed box - the lotus maxi based one - the end of the input shaft is about a cm or so further forwards, and the spline is longer. So the spline is hitting the flywheel before the bell housing has reached the engine block.

Not sure what to do now. Obviously I'll be phoning Alan in the morning. Has he missed something out, used the wrong bell housing, wrong input shaft or what?

:?:
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:44 am

I take it you have the right clutch plate (diameter and splines) to marry up with the input shaft?
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PostPost by: types26/36 » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:46 am

I'm no expert in this conversion but I do know the T9 does have at least two length input shafts, I bought a T9 and started getting info on the project but thats as far as I got.Thats a good point John makes about the clutch plate splines as I think the T9 has a larger diameter input spline.
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PostPost by: alaric » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:13 am

I have a clutch plate whose spline matches that on the input shaft. But, the input shaft passes through the clutch assembly and into the spigot bearing, which is in a hole in the end of the crank shaft. So, the clutch assembly really has nothing to do with this - I have that sat on the bench and am offering the bell housing up to the end of the engine with just the flywheel in place. It should fit easily - once the clutch assembly is in place, I need to get the splines to line up, but if it isn't there, the bell housing should still fit, but without the lining up issue. Obviously the car wouldn't go very far like this, but it allows me to check things'll fit without damaging anything.

Unless anyone knows that there should be a spacer etc, or that the bell housing is wrong, I think the input shaft is the problem.

Thanks for the suggestions. More will be appreciated. I'll let you know what Alan says.
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PostPost by: M100 » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:48 pm

Just for reference the clutch splines on the 4 speed box are 7/8" dia x 20. The type 9 splines are 1" dia x 23.

If it doesn't fit with no clutch in place then it's either the input shaft length or the spigot bearing on the crank. The bellhousing has to be right (unless it's a gross machining error!)
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PostPost by: john-c-elan+2 » Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:33 pm

From what I have read on various forums (morgan/locost etc) there are 2 type of t9 gearboxes - ie with differing length input shafts ? The one they say is an easier fit to a X flo (and likewise a t/c I guess) is the one whose input shaft length is 6.9" ? I believe the other t9 box (presumably from the bigger engined cars has a longer shaft ?? (Brian can you confirm this ?) Good luck, I'm sure AV will have the answer am friday for you. jc
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PostPost by: Foxie » Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:57 pm

I did the prototype +2 Spyder/ Alan Voight T9 conversion installation.
I had absolutely no problems mating the gearbox to the engine.

Some metal needed removing on the chassis and GB casting at tight spots.

I supplied A Voigts with drgs. /details.

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PostPost by: types26/36 » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:40 pm

john-c-elan+2 wrote:there are 2 type of t9 gearboxes - ie with differing length input shafts ? The one they say is an easier fit to a X flo (and likewise a t/c I guess) is the one whose input shaft length is 6.9" ? I believe the other t9 box (presumably from the bigger engined cars has a longer shaft ?? (Brian can you confirm this ?) jc


Yes, this is what I was saying, below is a paragraph from some of the data I had been collecting.

Quote:
7. There are two types of boxes known as the Type 9 and the N type., with deferent input shaft lengths. The Type 9 has a 8.1" shaft length and the Type N has a 6.9" length. You will require a 1" spacer plate to fit between the bell housing and engine on the Type 9.

The full text can be found at
http://www.locustenthusiastsclub.fsnet. ... _downs.htm
Also I believe there are two sizes of spigot bearing.
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PostPost by: alaric » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:42 pm

Thanks for all the comments chaps. As always with these things it's good to know you're not alone.

I chatted to Alan's son this morning. He was very surprised that I was having a problem, and has set about putting together some parts from their stock to try and replicate the problem. Apparently Alan fell off his motorbike this morning, so went off home to nurse his bruises.

I'm going to take photos and send measurements up to them to try and help sort out what's happened. They've promised to sort it out whatever, so we should have a happy ending to this.

Apparently I should have a clutch cover from the 4 speed... are they different between the 4 speed and 5 speed? My manuals seem to suggest they are the same, but it's difficult to be sure.

I'm off to see the +2 body tomorrow - it's with SMS being restored. My bank account seems to be draining rapidly at the moment. I'm happy with progress so far. Shame they're so far away - another 0420 start for me from sunny Dorset ...

Sean.
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PostPost by: types26/36 » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:51 pm

alaric wrote:.Apparently I should have a clutch cover from the 4 speed... are they different between the 4 speed and 5 speed? My manuals seem to suggest the.


As I remember the four speed cover plate has a disc supported on the fingers, on the five speed cover the release bearing just pushes on the clutch fingers, it is a different release bearing.
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PostPost by: alaric » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:58 pm

Thanks for that - that confirms what AV are saying.

Guess I'd better get out there and try to measure input shaft lengths, hunt for numbers on the box & housings, and take photos.

I thought that AV would have known of these issues and sorted them as part of the kit - when I get a chance to talk to Alan himself I'm sure that he'll be able to explain.

Sean.
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PostPost by: Foxie » Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:17 pm

Re a spacer being required on the bell housing - Alan Voigts told me he had had new bellhousings designed and cast for supply with his T9 gearbox conversions. They bolt straight on.

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PostPost by: alaric » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:20 am

My understanding was that this kit would bolt straight on. The bell housing does have a thick front flange, so I suspect that Alan is right, and the gear levers line up almost exactly (within ~5mm). The only problem seems to be this input shaft length.

The end of the input shaft on the original maxi box lies ~21mm behind the front face of the bell housing. The spline lies ~53mm behind the front face of the bell housing. The diameter of the end shaft is 15mm, and the length before the spline is ~30mm.

The end of the input shaft on the T9 box lies ~ 2mm behind the front face of the bell housing. The spline lies ~32mm behind the front face of the bell housing. The diameter of the end shaft is 15mm, and the length before the spline is ~30mm.

So I have about 20mm to deal with.
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PostPost by: barrydoran » Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:23 pm

When I wrecked my five speed and converted to a four speed I found that there is a cicular insert in the centre of the flywheel about an inch or so in diameter. This taps out easily. giving you about an extra half inch or so for the end of the input shaft.

One I removed this the 4 speed clutch plate worked fine.

Bear in mind I'm talking about the original 4 speed gearbox, not the type 9. But This may be the answer to your problem.

Barry.
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PostPost by: worzel » Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:36 pm

There are indeed two variants of these boxes.

A box from the 2.8 engined cars needs to have the input shaft machined to suit the spigot bearing. Boxes from the 1.6/2.0 engined cars fit straight in.

This is a definitive answer- not my info I should add but info from the guy who designed the conversion for Paul Matty some years ago.

Regards

John
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