Plus 2 steel wheels on Elan+0

[7skypilot]

Hi All,

I've spent some time searching this excellent forum in an attempt to understand why my spinners 'bottom out' when fitting Plus 2 steel wheels to my S4 Elan. I hadn't appreciated this and torqued the spinners to 200'lbs (thanks to Sarto's socket) before a short test drive. The front RH wheel proved to be loose, despite torquing, and resulted in three missing drive pegs and a scary drive home on the Minilite alloy spare wheel!

I've just checked a different Plus 2 steel wheel on the RH front hub and it also bottoms out. The original S4 steel wheels are clamped by the spinner - just.

Ten complete turns of the spinner on the front hub and the spinner bottoms out. The original steel wheels need 9.5 of these turns to be tight, the Plus 2 steel wheels are still not clamped tight when all ten available turns are used and the spinner bottoms out against the hub thread.

It is as if the front hub thread is too long, or the spinner thread is too shallow, allowing the spinner to bottom out before clamping the wheel.

Perhaps I could grind 5mm or so off the front hub thread- this would solve the problem, but it sounds a bit drastic.

Any thoughts?

[JohnCh]

Is it only happening on that corner? If so, have you tried swapping spinners to see if the problem remains with that corner or follows the spinner?

-John

[7skypilot]

Thanks John.

I'll check that when I get a chance, maybe later on today. I haven't kept spinner on specific front or rear hubs, just left and right so your idea sounds good.

Watch this space...

[msd1107]

One of the early things I did was put +2 wheels on my S4. No problem.

Sounds like you have a build up of tolerances that give a bad result on that corner.

Try to shorten the threads on that side.

Cheers,

David
1968 36/7988

[7skypilot]

Thanks David,

It is looking like that's what I'll have to do. I'll try the other spinner first, but I'll need to remove around 4-5mm of thread to ensure the wheel is firmly clamped once the brand new powder coating has worn away.

[10kph]

Did I once read that spinners for steel wheels are deeper than those for alloys. Would make sense because of the wheels thickness.Ones for steel wheels would fit alloys but not vice versa, so do a depth measurement on your spinners perhaps they are a mixed batch.
Tony

[Washer]

Hi 7skypilot

In the past I have run into an identical problem with the front spinner bottoming on my +2 after carrying out some work on the front and rear suspension. Swapping the spinners front to rear allowed the wheels to be tightened.

As I recall examining the internal threads of the two spinners showed that they were actually different; one spinner had an undercut after the spinner thread, the other did not. Therefore, one spinner could screw further on to the hub thread than the other, by about 3-4mm I think. Also the distance between the hub flange and the end of the hub thread is longer at the front than at the rear. Fitting the non-undercut spinner on the longer front threaded hub would not allow a sufficient clamping force to secure the steel wheel.

I am not sure about any difference between alloy and steel wheel spinners.

Relying on a torque figure alone for wheel clamping tightness is perhaps not the best option, as you have found with the spinner bottoming. Instead tightening the spinner until all play is eliminated and then marking the position of a spinner ear relative to the wheel (chalk mark on the rim?) before applying the 200ftlb torque, will allow visual confirmation, by angular movement, that the some clamping force has actually been applied . One day I must check if it is possible to establish if an angular torque figure (degrees) would consistently correspond the 200ftlb torque setting...

Mike

[7skypilot]

Mike,

Thanks for the info. It's reassuring that someone else has experienced, and overcome, a similar problem. I'll check and report back later on today.

As you point out, merely torquing the spinner doesn't ensure that the wheel is clamped against the hub - checking that the spinner turns whilst the torque increases is vital.

Don

[7skypilot]

Update:
1) Front and rear spinners on the +0 are the same. Interchanging front to rear makes no difference to the thread 'bottoming out'.
2) The female spinner thread bottoms out at the same point as the male thread rolled on the hub runs out, so reducing the length of the hub will have no effect.

My Minilites (with ss collars) work just perfectly. I'll keep those on the car and keep the original 4.5J steels for 'Sunday best'. A thin steel shim between hub and wheel seems to be the only way to securely fit the +2 wheels.

Thanks, as ever, for all your useful input.

Don