Loctite for Revolution Knock-On Alloy Wheel Adapters?

[mrpeugeot]

Hello,

I recently headed off a potentially scary situation with my new-to-me Elan. This particular Elan is equipped with an original set of Revolution 5.5" alloy wheels for the knock-on hubs.

Instead of sliding onto the threaded knock-on hub, the Revolution wheels slide on to an adapter that screws over the original threaded hub (see the attachment for a picture of this setup).

After a drive the other day, I returned to the garage, and jacked up the front end to retorque a few of the bolts in the suspension. I noticed that the left front wheel was slightly loose, despite the fact that the spinner was tight. As it turns out, the Revolution adapter had started working itself off of the threaded knock-on hub. Good thing I caught it early!

This leads me to my question: to prevent this from happening in the future, is loctite specified to keep these adapters on the threaded hubs? There isn't much of a facility built into the adapters to tighten them otherwise.

Thank you,

Adam

[rgh0]

Loctite was probably not invented when this setup was created.

The wheel centre should bottom out on the flange with the 5 studs and be held there by the centre knock on nut.

What the adapter does in between is a bit hard to figure out in my head But it does not appear to need to be locked up with Loctite. To centre the wheel knock on nut, it needs to be firmly screwed on and seat onto the hub. Once the knock ones are tightened on it, it should not be able to rotate and come loose?

But this is an add on to the original design that was not a simple concept to begin with so you need be careful with all this

cheers
Rohan

[elj221c]

Heath Robinson comes to mind....

I've not seen anything like that before.....

I assume that the wheels have the five pin holes in them?

[StressCraxx]

Umm, I would be concerned using loctite, even the red stuff. Once the hubs get hot from hard braking, the loctite will melt in the threads and act like a lubricant.

Could there be a more positive means to make sure it does not loosen, such as drilling and tapping for a dog point set screw?

[mrpeugeot]

Rohan - an excellent point about Loctite not yet being available. To answer your question about the function of these adapters, my guess is that they are to push the wheel further out to clear the spring/damper assemblies given their 5.5" width.

Roy - yes, the wheels have adapters for the 5 drive pegs attached to them, so they seat in an identical fashion to the Lotus steel knock-on wheels.

The one facility included in these adapters to allow for tightening is a small (perhaps 1/8") hole drilled into one side of the threads, with a similar hole on the inner facing of the adapter. You can see this in the original attachment.

One could fit some sort of hardened metal pin through the outer hole, seat it in the inner hole, lock the hub so it can't move, and then further tighten the adapter that way. However, I'm not sure what kind of stresses would be placed on the adapter with aggressive hammering.

Hopefully someone else has a similar set of wheels/adapters and can opine as well.

Thanks for the replies!

Adam

[rgh0]

If you want to keep this unusual setup then I would tighten the adapters on the hubs with a pipe wrench to the 200 ftlb number specified for the knock ons. Then fit the wheels and tighten the knock ons to the same torque.

Wheel rotation tries to tighten the knock on, onto the adapter and the adapter onto the hub - i think??
I would check it very carefully until i was convinced nothing was coming loose in service as the failure consequences are signficant.

The centre of the wheel should not bottom out on the centre of the adapter so make sure that is not occuring when you tighten it. The wheels needs to bottom out on the 5 studs face of the hub - it worries me on the photo that there appears to be no metal to metal wear marks on this face.

When you remove the wheel the adapter will probably come loose also and need retightening.

Personally i would find new wheels and get rid of the adapters

cheers
Rohan

[tmrlotus+2]

Hello,

I recently headed off a potentially scary situation with my new-to-me Elan. This particular Elan is equipped with an original set of Revolution 5.5" alloy wheels for the knock-on hubs.

Instead of sliding onto the threaded knock-on hub, the Revolution wheels slide on to an adapter that screws over the original threaded hub (see the attachment for a picture of this setup).

After a drive the other day, I returned to the garage, and jacked up the front end to retorque a few of the bolts in the suspension. I noticed that the left front wheel was slightly loose, despite the fact that the spinner was tight. As it turns out, the Revolution adapter had started working itself off of the threaded knock-on hub. Good thing I caught it early!

This leads me to my question: to prevent this from happening in the future, is loctite specified to keep these adapters on the threaded hubs? There isn't much of a facility built into the adapters to tighten them otherwise.

Thank you,

Adam

Adam,

Finally someone with the same problem I have! I just stumbled on this problem last month with my Elan +2S with Revolution 15x6" wheels. I was trying to take off the right front knock off (which was stuck) and I ended up removing the whole hub and discovered the hub extender (which I didn't even realize were on the car).

My initial thought was to separate my wheel nut from the hub extender in a vise, and then use a spring wrench to tighten the hub extender back onto the hub (using the single hole in the hub extender for the hook of the wrench). I'm also having the problem of my tires hitting the fenders (slightly), and was wondering if I could machine new hub extenders that are slightly shorter (I'd love to know the dimensions of yours...).

Please let me know what you try next and how it goes. I'm currently trying buy the original 13" +2S alloys (Paul Matty had them listed), but haven't been able to find them currently available anywhere. I'd also love to know if someone has a source for these!

Regards,
Mike

[mrpeugeot]

Hello Mike,

Glad to hear that I'm not the only one with this issue! When it first came off, I did, in fact, put the hub extender (great description for what it is, by the way) in a vice and then used my copper hammer to knock off the spinner from the extender. It only took a few good whacks, and I used a cushioned vice to avoid marking the extender.

As to getting the extender back on to the original threaded hub tightly enough so that it won't unscrew itself again, I have not gotten that far yet. One possibility suggested by a friend of mine (a 40+ year Porsche mechanic) was to use a pipe wrench to sufficiently tighten the extender, followed by a proper torquing of the spinner/wheel onto the extender. My next opportunity to try this out will be two weekends from now. I will add my update then.

I should also note that the wheel does, in fact, seat properly onto the drive pegs, with the face of the alloy wheel tightly mating to the hub surface, and the drive pegs fully engaged in their respective holes.

While I'd like to find an alternate set of wheels for my Elan, the reality is that it has had this set of Revolutions since 1977 (at the latest, if not earlier), and as such, I imagine there's something I can do to achieve another 37 years of travel without the risk of a wheel suddenly liberating itself from the rest of the car.

Thanks,

Adam

[rgh0]

Hello Mike,

. One possibility suggested by a friend of mine (a 40+ year Porsche mechanic) was to use a pipe wrench to sufficiently tighten the extender, followed by a proper torquing of the spinner/wheel onto the extender. My next opportunity to try this out will be two weekends from now. I will add my update then.

Be careful of advice from Porsche mechanics (even if they give same advice as me). They are used to a totally different engineering philosophy to the way a Lotus is made

cheers
Rohan

[mrpeugeot]

Ah yes - my apologies, Rohan. I meant to attribute this advice to you as well. I think it makes quite a lot of sense!

[peterexpart]

Adam
By the look of the small holes in the Adaptor they were designed to be tightened with a "C" Spanner, would it be possible to drill and tap the adaptor so that after they have been tightened they could be locked on to the existing threaded spigot with a Socket Head Grub Screw ??

[CBUEB1771]

Loctite was probably not invented when this setup was created.

Sorry for the diversion but this got me wondering. Loctite has been around since the mid-1950s:
http://www.loctite.co.uk/history-4090.htm
Just curious!

[mbell]

I'm currently trying buy the original 13" +2S alloys (Paul Matty had them listed), but haven't been able to find them currently available anywhere. I'd also love to know if someone has a source for these!

Sports Car World in Dallas has multiple racks of used Lotus wheels, including the +2S alloys. Probably cheaper shipping than from Paul Matty, if you're ok with second hand (and can get through to sports car world.)

[rgh0]

Loctite was probably not invented when this setup was created.

Sorry for the diversion but this got me wondering. Loctite has been around since the mid-1950s:
http://www.loctite.co.uk/history-4090.htm
Just curious!

You learn something new everyday

i guess i did not become aware of it in Australia until the 70's. Back then new ideas and products took much longer to get to Australia

cheers
Rohan

[tmrlotus+2]

I'm currently trying buy the original 13" +2S alloys (Paul Matty had them listed), but haven't been able to find them currently available anywhere. I'd also love to know if someone has a source for these!

Sports Car World in Dallas has multiple racks of used Lotus wheels, including the +2S alloys. Probably cheaper shipping than from Paul Matty, if you're ok with second hand (and can get through to sports car world.)

Thanks, I'll try see what they have in stock. I'd still prefer new if they're available.

Regards,
Mike