are my rims bent, or tyres holding car in air separated

[h20hamelan]

guess the vibration could be, brake disk or other unspring rotating mass.

I am going for a 3ed Trueing/Balancing

I have reset my tyres twice now and am not happy with the 45year old steel with 50,000km on em. Or the tyres have been sitting too long. New tyres on new Trueing/Balancing attempt.

If i go for some minilites, I will not be happy as original light steel. but i will have newer better 14" tires.

???

[billwill]

You have not exactly explained your problem. Are your tyres failing to stay inflated?

[PeterK]

I read this as a vibration / balance issue.

First check the front suspension joints, bushes, wheel bearings and wheel nuts/knock ons. If all OK, then a standard wheel balance should do. If the tyres are old, then change them for safety reasons anyway.

Other causes of imbalance could include:
- the discs being warped, discs having been fitted without ensuring that the mounting faces on the hubs and discs were clean, or loose bolts
- loose rack mounts or perished rubber, and maybe but unlikely, a worn rack.

Peter

[RichardHawkins]

Your rims could be bent. I spent ages trying to find the acceptable run out for steel wheels, and eventually tracked down an old British Standard in the British Library.

BS AU 50 Part 2 Section 0 1979
Lateral run out 1.5mm total indicator reading.
Diametral run out 1.5mm total indicator reading.

I also bought a new pressed steel wheel for a caravan and measured run out as 0.25mm total indicator reading.

I eventually got my rims to 0.38mm total indicator reading.

The car is still in bits, so don't know if it really matters.

Richard Hawkins

[oldelanman]

I eventually got my rims to 0.38mm total indicator reading.

Richard, How did you straighten your rims ?

[john.p.clegg]

Richard
How did you correct the run-out?
Thanks
John

[oldelanman]

Hey John I asked first.......just

[h20hamelan]

Thanks

I suspect my disks are not true. But I am having a very tough time looking past 45 year old rims with 45,000km on em.

Sure there is play, that is noticeable when vehicle is stationary-wiggle side to side top and bottom. Raise car up. Put on alignment machine. Check double check.

Driving down the road. Around 73kmph a wobble or vibration starts, does not go away. Depress clutch, hit brakes. Still a vibration, rotational !

Tyres would have been sitting here and there (flat spots). No great quality (continental though) of Tyres in 13" so...

Wheels, well after thousands of km, probably a rock or pot hole or two... They are the riveted wheels, feels like the weak point in the rotating area.

If they were re-pressed (the outter rim-band) to make em a wee bit more straight. How long would that last. If Colin were making the Elans today, would there be a different technique, or would the wheels just get replaced when worn ?

[john.p.clegg]

Richard

What is it they say "Great minds think alike" or is it "Fools seldom differ"...

John

[ricarbo]

If the vibration starts at about 60 mph, but disappears at about 75 or so, it is a wheel balance problem. If it just gets worse and you can't drive through it, you have an eccentricity problem. you should check the wheel for out of round and side to side, Maximum error one sixteenth of an inch, for steel wheels, much less for alloys. Then check the tyre surface for maximum out of round, one sixteenth of an inch again.
A little used car often has out of round tyres. Depending on the tyre construction and materials, some will return to round when used and warmed up. Others won't and have to be replaced.
No amount of rebalancing will compensate for eccentricity, so check this thoroughly first yourself, before wasting money at the balancers. Don't imagine the balancers will check eccentricity.
An out of balance propshaft drives the same as an eccentric roadwheel and so does a bent drive shaft, or halfshaft flange at the diff or the wheel hub. Or a failing rotoflex. A brake disc rarely causes any problem.
regards
Richard

[h20hamelan]

Perfect !

Thanks !

Happy easter


Richard, Thanks. I have time to look at flange's. And driveshafts. I suppose after replacing tyres I will know more. Unfortunately there are no great 13"s available in N.A.
But I suspect eliminating the vibration will make it enjoyable, which is what I have wanted for 30 or so years. A nice Elan

[RichardHawkins]

Wheel correction.

My wheels were badly damaged. I was unable to find any company to repair them. I could not find a manufactuer of steel wheels of any sort. I tried the trailer makers who use small steel wheels, but they would not talk to me. I had almost given up, but then I thought of caravans. I went to my nearest caravan dealer who sold me a steel wheel with the same rim size as an Elan. My intention was to cut the centre out, and see if I could re-use the rim.

I am fortunate in owning a lathe big enough to turn an Elan wheel. I checked my caravan wheel for run out to get an idea of what is possible. I noticed the manufacturers name stamped on the wheel. I e-mailed the company, who kindly told me that I did not have to cut up caravan wheels to release the rim as they could supply rims.

The rims are a little too large on the inside diameter. I cut most of the old Lotus rim off the centre, then turned the remainder off with the lathe until I had the required interference fit. I pressed the new rim onto the centre, trued it up using the lathe and soft hammer. I employed someone to weld the assembly, checked it again in the lathe, and finally had it powder coated.

If anyone wants more information, please send me a private message. I had thought that I could offer a wheel service, but as my restoration is far from complete I will not have time until the Elan is finished.

Richard Hawkins

[h20hamelan]

Wow

Brave, Smart. Good work !

Seems that the early elan rims that were riveted may be good candidates. And a weld or two would sure them up.

Where are you located Richard Hawkins. N S E W don't need exact.

Regards

[oldelanman]

Richard,
That's a great solution, well done.
I'm sure if you did decide to offer a wheel rebuild service there would be many here who would be interested, I suspect there are very few original steel wheels that come close to the run-out specs that the other Richard quoted above.
As the caravan wheel manufacturer seems to have been very helpful it might be worth approaching them to see if they would be interested in providing a rebuild service ?

[ricarbo]

That figure of one sixteenth of an inch comes from my Triumph Herald workshop manual of about 1965 and is quoted as the SMMT (Society of Motor vehicle Manufacturers & Traders) figure for steel wheels!

Obviously, it should be measured where the the tyre bead sits on the rim. A dial gauge would be the fancy way to do it, while slowly rotating the wheel on the jacked up car, but I'm sure a bit of wood held on an axle stand would also give you a good answer in a few minutes.

I had endless problems with wire wheels, which can measure ok when static, but seemed to go out of round at speed. The only thing I could think of was uneven spoke tension. In the end I gave up and changed to disc wheels, which fixed it instantly.

Where's N.A.? North America? North Africa/Australia/Atlantic?

Regards
Richard