Wobbly wheels. What to do?

[johnsimister]

My S3 had a steering vibration at certain speeds, and a more deep-rooted vibration from the rear. So I had the wheels balanced. On the balancing machine I could see that all four wheels did not run true*. Lots of run-out, typical I believe of many orginal steel Elan wheels nowadays. I put the least-wobbly wheels on the front (they had been on the back, whether coincidentally or deliberately on the part of the PO I don't know), and the vibration is as bad as before, possibly worse.

I asked Susan Miller if she still sold the wheels shown on her website, but they have all gone. So:

a) I could get the wheels trued-up if there's anywhere in the UK that does this. Any ideas, anyone?

b) I could buy a set of appropriate-looking alloys of the Minilite style but not magnesium, as they would be too corrosion-prone for regular road use and too expensive. Any suggestions? Would a 5in rim width be OK on an S3 running on 2.25in ID rear springs? I'll use the existing 165/70 R13 tyres. I'm not keen on the Lotus alloy look (late Plus Two) on an S3 - too showy. And might the Lotus alloys be too wide anyway?

All suggestions gratefully received. Favourite option is to keep the steel-wheel look but I have to get rid of the vibro-massage.

John

*I read on here that centre-lock Lotus wheels don't always sit squarely on a balancing machine, but this isn't the problem here. The run-out is visible with the wheels spun on the car too.

[richard sprint]

John

To my mind it would be unusual for more than one wheel out of five to be bad - obvious question perhaps could it be the tyres? I cannot see how someone could make these good if indeed they are bad...

Otherwise how about posting a request for some wheels to see if a set might be lying around?

Your name seems familiar possibly from Evo magazine?

Richard

[mac5777]

Hello johnsimister, I have a vibration at 70 mph and tested the trueness and found that my panasport wheels were very true. This tool was designed for off car spin balancing. It helps the tire shops to center the wheels on the 5 pins.
I have not used it yet to see if that takes the vibration out. I was also told that it may be the tyres. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Sarto

On a some what related subject-- another inventor offered his tool to add to my knockoff tool marketing. If you have ever tried to balance you wheels at a tire shop, most are not able to spin balance with their centering attachments. Our wheels need to be balanced off of the pins to be accurate. So spin balancing them on the car is best for the fronts but the rears are a little difficult.
This adapter tool allows us to take it to any tire shop and can be center on the 5 pins and quickly balanced off the car.
Don't have a production price as yet but would like some feed back on the idea. Lotus shops should think it a useful tool.

[bill308]

John,

A quality aluminum alloy wheel is simply stronger, stiffer, and more true than any steel wheel.

Bill

[twincamman]

if you don't want 'go faster' alloys find some Triumph Spitfire steel wheels ----ed

[paddy]

I had a problem with significant runout on the rears which was due to the hubs. They will often get bent if not removed very carefully. It might just be worth checking it before junking the wheels. I replaced with TTR ones.

Paddy

[Jolly Jumper]

John,

I have two Elans and both now run on Minilite Wheels with 100mm backspace supplied by Tony Thompson.
Reason: The original steel wheels were not running true, on both cars. Quite simply, they are 30 to 40 years old steel wheels which were not that well made in the first place. It's a weak design. The change to minilites has improved things very much.

Whilst it is true that the hubs can be cause for vibrations too, I must say it is far more likely down to the steel wheels.

Cheers
Jolly

P.S: Really like your articles! So many "modern" journalist sound like Troy Queef, but you don't.

[johnsimister]

Thanks to all for your thoughts. I'll check the hubs for truth. Motor Wheel Services say they might be able to rescue the wheels, having done so before with Elan wheels, but won't know till they see them. They also talked, intriguingly, of maybe being able to source new ones. I shall report back.

Meanwhile, the idea of Minilites is very tempting.

Re the Evo connection, my Elan will be in the next issue among some very illustrious company. It doesn't quite hold its own, not least because it is still a 'work in progress', but it was fun taking part. I think the way the feature will work is that those who have driven editor Harry Metcalfe's Sprint will blend their experiences of that car with those gained from mine in order to give the Elan the fair hearing it deserves. Harry's car feels just as an Elan should, and is lovely. But then it's almost a new car, with a new Spyder chassis, a new bodyshell and everything overhauled mechanically.

It was the drive to, around and from North Wales - 665 miles in all - that has made me determined to fix the vibrations. Two+ hours on the M54, M6 and M1 (I had to get home quickly) proved very wearing. That said, I learnt more about my car's dynamics from two days of zooming over wonderful Welsh backroads than in the previous whole year of ownership. The Elan is made for those roads.

John

[StressCraxx]

I have had my steel K/O wheel straightened and trued in the past several times. They eventually find their way out of true.

Ten years ago, I experienced a suspension pickup point failure on the right rear forward wishbone mount. The back of the car suddenly wanted to steer to the right.
The cause of failure was low stress/high cycle metal fatigue. It happened to be the corner with the wheel that was the most out of true. I am almost positive the bent wheel caused the failure.

Not fun.

I was able to have the bracket tig welded back to the chassis by a very competent fabricator. There was good penetration on the original weld at the bracket, but almost no penetration of the heavier chassis material. When we were done, I had good full penetration welds.

I tried again to have the wheel straightened, then found a couple of used wheels. They were not much better. Finally, I gave up and bought a set of Panasports. I believe an Austrailian company replicated the original steel wheels. They sold for about $180 US each as I remember.

Best regards,
Dan Wise

[normanjsmith]

John,
When I bought my Elan +2 back in the early 70's I had a similar problem with vibration. I checked the wheels for trueness and found that all four had up to 3/16" lateral or vertical wobble. There was no evidence of damage so I can only assume they were made like this. British engineering at its worst!
To rectify this I had some spun rims welded to the Elan centres and while they were reasonably true they leaked from the weld between the two halves. Next, I had some 5 1/2" safety hump rims fitted to the centres but they were still not round and weighed a ton.
The only solution -an expensive one at the time - was a set of magnesium Minilites.New tyres were fitted and "shaved" for trueness. The +2 then felt as smooth and refined as my Peugeot 504 right up to 7200 rpm in top.

Norm

[John Larkin]

Hi Norm,

Are you in Ballina in Ireland or in New South Wales?

John Larkin.

[johnsimister]

I feel myself being inexorably drawn towards Minilites with black centres, as fitted to Christian's OEW...

John

[normanjsmith]

G'day John

The Ballina I'm from is on the far north coast of N.S.W. Australia. I had no idea there was another because the name is derived from the Aboriginal "Bulloona." However, I've just done a little local history research and it seems that many of the early inhabitants were Irish and they changed it to the more familiar "Ballina" which is a town in County Mayo.
Not many Elans around here.

Norm

[AussieJohn]

A friend of mine has just fitted new rims to Elan K/O centres; these are not yet on the road but have way less runout than BS standards for steel wheels. The rims came from Germany, supplied without centres; another option! Hey Normanjsmith, you arn't the tall, lanky bloke who lived at Silverdale many years gone by?

[johnsimister]

Motor Wheel Services have now suggested the same idea, fitting new rims to my existing KO centres. Sounds the best solution. Thanks again to all.

John