Tyres

[Roland]

Dougal,

My air-cooled cars are both from the 90's so fairly modern?? A 1992 964 RS and a 1996 993 Turbo. I have had them quite a time and they both came to me using P Zero's which was a popular choice from new for these cars. The 993 runs 225/40 ZR18 front and 285/30ZR18 rear and it tramlined terribly on the P zero's and the turn in was not great. I think most Porsche owners with cars of this era have moved to Michelin, probably PS4's.

Actually finding some to properly align these cars is also the key, its not simply a matter of setting everything 'green' in spec. I am up in NE Scotland and I take them all the way down South normally. Just struggling to get the 993 sorted just now since I tried to get it set up locally with disappointing results.

The Pirelli's on the Elan I am sure will be a different matter to the P zero's and looking forward to trying them when available (May/June I hear).

Roland

[661]

Er , Roland, forgive me, pray tell what are you to do with Dougal's underpants?

[dougal cawley]

Dougal,

My air-cooled cars are both from the 90's so fairly modern?? A 1992 964 RS and a 1996 993 Turbo. I have had them quite a time and they both came to me using P Zero's which was a popular choice from new for these cars. The 993 runs 225/40 ZR18 front and 285/30ZR18 rear and it tramlined terribly on the P zero's and the turn in was not great. I think most Porsche owners with cars of this era have moved to Michelin, probably PS4's.

Actually finding some to properly align these cars is also the key, its not simply a matter of setting everything 'green' in spec. I am up in NE Scotland and I take them all the way down South normally. Just struggling to get the 993 sorted just now since I tried to get it set up locally with disappointing results.

The Pirelli's on the Elan I am sure will be a different matter to the P zero's and looking forward to trying them when available (May/June I hear).

Roland

AHA!

OK its a fair cop. I owe you a pair of underpants. (funnily enough i am wareing tartan ones today)

[2cams70]

My experience with tyres is that you can’t generalize and say “It’s a Michelin tyre so it’s good”

I currently run a Fiesta ST as a daily which had Pilot Sports as factory fitment. Good tyre but thoroughly worn out at 30,000km. Replaced by P zeros which seem equally good - let’s see how long they last. There were no Michelins in the correct size available when I needed to replace the old tyres so the tyre shop recommended the Pirellis. I do around 47,000km a year so 30,000km is only a bit over 6 months usage for me.

Prior to that I had over a period of 6 years or so a succession of Honda City’s fitted will grocery getter Michelin XM1’s from the factory. God awful tyre even for a grocery getter. Replaced with Bridgestone grocery getter tyres that were infinitely better.

Low end Michelin tyres seem to be rubbish. High end Michelin tyres are as you would expect.

As for retro tyres from OEM manufacturers I have no experience but I’m guessing that are probably a mixed bag and definitely not high on the development priorities of the likes of Michelin and Pirelli.

[h20hamelan]

agree about low end whatever

do you suspect Pirelli or Michelin etc would use the cheap material. I suspect they would use what they think a good compound to be, they know these tyres are used on higher end classics and at race pace. dont want their name tarnished in those circles?

[2cams70]

I doubt a high percentage of those retro tyres would be used at race pace by those old gentlemanly folk who are the target demographic! Like I said I don’t really have the experience using them so can’t say whether or not they are good. I’m surprised the OEM’s would bother though. Perhaps a third party manufactures them under some kind of agreement. I’d be surprised if they kept any old original blueprints going that far back.

[mbell]

I believe they have the tyre manufacturers have special divisions that work on these tyres. I think it one of those cases where they are low volume but relative high margin. I think a lot of the tyres are basically the old designs made with modern materials(plys and compounds).

This means they can get material at high volume (low cost) as it is shared with there standard tyres. As they re-use the old design there is very little R&D, it mostly just the testing/verification of the tyres safety . All this means the investment is minimal and they can make some money.

The tyres are not targeted at racing use but normal road and road events IMO. I have the CN36 on my car now and like them. While an old tread design the performance is quite good due to soft compound, they certainly out perform the cheap, higher wear all seasons I fitted before. If I was going racing or regularly doing track days I'd fit different tryes but I'd also probably buy a different car for that!

At a ~$200USD premium a set over a modern Chinese grocery getter tyre I think it makes sense and well worth it with how critical tyres are on a car. My impression is the XAF is probably a better tyre than the CN36 but it very hard to justify the cost of the XAS over the CN36 or probably a modern tyre.

[dougal cawley]

Hi

I hope i can dispell some speculated myths that seem to be arising.

the quality of tyres by manufacturers like Pirelli and Michelin are excpetional. they use the best quality raw materials, the products are aimed at the top end of the tolerances rather than the bottom, the build quality is exceptional, and the quality control systems they go through mean it is incredibly rare for us to have any come back.

These small batch specialist tyres are not expensive for what they are. I don't dispute that it doesn't add up to a large credit card bill, but you are buying something unusal and difficult to make in small batches, but made with the same care and attention as the best tyres in the world. These specialist tyres are made in the small jobbing factories that are set up to make small batches of tyres.

If you want to think about price then have a look at this web page of the De Tomato Pantooney

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... ntera.html

we have just managed to get a 285/50R15 P7 made for them. It only fitted the rear of a few years of Pantera. it is not a cheap tyre, though i actually think that is really good value for what it is. But it makes your tyres look cheap as chips.

Also if you look at the big P-Zero Pirelli tyres that are outside my remit and compare the prices to the P7 tyres that are made for us, you will see how well we look after the prices of these things and do our best by the classic car market.

there are myths about tread design. the main developments in tread design over recent year has been about reducing the noise of tyres and rolling resistence. Moving water is another one; however, in actuality directional tyres (which are the best way of moving water) have been around for a long time. in fact if you look at the design of the Longstone Tyres Logo it is taken from the Dunlop Chevron tread pattern of i think 1918.

[holywood3645]

I’m on the search for a new set of tires for an S4 elan currently In (USA) all I can find is
Michelin XAS @ Croker tire
Pirelli Cinturato CA67 @ Lucas tire long beach, but only in 145’s
Unfortunately, I cannot find Toyo R888 as they do not appear to be available (here) in 165.
I’m open to any suggestions on sources for these, and/or a better selection of sizes in the Pirelli.
I’m sure there are other sources out there…. But who/where?
Thanks
James

[The Veg]

James, if you're open to a modern tyre, a few months ago I got a set of Achilles 122s in 165 for my Plus 2. I think the merchant was Priority Tire but don't quote me on that. These are a summer-rated tyre made in Malaysia, and I think I paid about $63 each. A few hundred miles in, I'm very happy with them! Very grippy and the car still feels light on its feet and is quite flickable in the twisties.

[holywood3645]

I’ve seen them advertised on tireseasy.com I think. My current thoughts are to go with the Perrelli C67 which are H rated. However only in 145 profile.
The XAS FF would be first choice, but they are twice the price.
Thanks for the response
James

[mwhitaker]

I second the Veg's opinion of the Achilles 122 which I run in 155/70-13 size for my S4 in the 6 colder months of the year on my Panasports-alternating with the Michelin XAS set I have mounted on Sue Miller original rims to use in the main driving months. They have a nice steering feel, ride is decent and grip is good- a bargain at about $60 each. I went with slightly lower profile due to initial fender clearance issues , eventually sorted with my adjustable spring perches. One does lose a bit of ground clearance for the required aluminum drip pans in the garage though....

Cheers, Mark Whitaker
69 Elan S4DHC
45/8396

[holywood3645]

Looks like these may soon be available in the US

[mbell]

I found longstones to be cheaper than buying from a us supplier...

[holywood3645]

I found longstones to be cheaper than buying from a us supplier...

Including shipping?

James