Loose rear wheels

[collins_dan]

When I grab the top of rear wheels and pull/push them, I can feel a little bit of play, despite having tightened the nader nuts as tight as I can get them. When I put the emergency brake on, there is no play. When I jack the rear up, I can't feel any play. When I remove a wheel, I can't feel any play in the hub, strut... Any ideas? I have original 13" x 5.5" steel wheels on an S4. Thanks, Dan

[elancoupe]

Wheel bearings are on the way out.

[collins_dan]

That's what I was thinking too, but I'm not hearing anything at all.

Dan

[reb53]

"When I remove a wheel, I can't feel any play in the hub, strut... Any ideas?"

Yep.
When you have removed the wheel, stick a jack under the strut and bring it up to normal ride height. Check for movement now. If it's back again it's most likely bearings, or if you are really unlucky, a worn/grooved stub axle.

Testing with the wheel at full droop loads it up so that it is very hard to test properly.

Ralph.

[elanfan1]

" I have original 13 x 5.5 wheels on an S4"


- don't think so - they would have been 4.5's on an S4

[1964 S1]

How does the car Drive?

[collins_dan]

Car drives great, but felt a little twitchy in some long sweeping turns last weekend. I autocrossed it pretty hard a month or so ago, and I'm wondering if that loosened something up.

As to the wheels, they are 5.5", I measured them the other day. It always struck as a bit of a stretch to get 185s on 4.5" wheel. They are original Lotus peg drive wheels. I'm guessing they are from a +2 as I have heard mentioned here that +2's had 5.5" wheels.

Dan

[msd1107]

5.5" wheels are a definitely positive upgrade for an Elan. They are easiest for S4 and later cars, with more clearance, since they push the sidewalls of the tire out some. Otherwise, you may have to pay some attention to the inside of the wheel wells and the spring supports.

These wheels work very well with 165-13, 185/70-13 or 185/60-13 tires. You will notice an improvement in handling and steering precision.

The original 4.5" wheels were satisfactory only in the very first Elans with 5.2-13 tires. Anything later should have had at least 5" wheels, but, of course, Lotus couldn't afford the expense of new wheel tooling for what is basically a touring car.

David
1968 36/7988

[ill_will]

from your description, it sounds like purely axial play (in the direction of the axle) rather than play if you push one side and pull the other?

I have the same thing, despite having just replaced all bearings. If the play disappears with the handbrake on (which would clamp the wheel in the axial direction) this would seem to confirm this. You could try inserting a couple of wooden wedges between the back of the hub and the alloy strut casting, and seeing if this eliminates the problem too (with the brake off.) The question is how to fix it... I know a certain amount of axial play is expected in deep groove ball bearings, and is legal here in the UK (afaik: reason for test failure is stated as 'excessive play', but no figure is given!)

If the drive shaft is sliding through the inner race of the outer bearing you should probably sort it out, but if the play is from the inner and outer bearing races moving axially relative to one another then, I would just keep an eye on it.

Can anyone else contribute regarding the bearing play issue? It is mighty annoying! Thanks in advance

will

[paddy]

I fitted new bearings at the back (narrow type) and still had some end-float which could be felt when rocking the wheel with the car on the ground. I know some others here have reported that they have no end-float at all with new bearings but that wasn't my experience.

I think it's unavoidable with the bearings being used. I did wonder if the bearings deal with thrust in one direction but not the other and I'd put one in the wrong way around, but I've not had any problems. Provided you're satisfied it's not a result of wear then I think I would just check periodically that it's not getting any worse.

Maybe someone else has a more definitive answer.

Paddy

[rgh0]

The bearings used in the rear hub have a small end float that will increase with wear and may be larger or smaller depedning on the actul bearing purchased, higher quality bearings will typically have less end float. On initial assembly there may be no end float depending on how the assembly has been pressed together initially and how tight the shaft and hub fits are. The outer bearing is free to float on the shaft and float in one direction in the hub and there is no designed in preload to control this float. The innner bearing is what provides the axial location being secured by circlips and shoulders on both the shaft and hub.

A small amount of axial freeplay is certainly acceptable, inline with the specified tolerance for the bearing used. I have had the shaft circlip come loose and come out of its groove when racing on one occassion resulting in excessive freeplay and the wheel hub contacting the alloy bearing carrier and the disk rubbing on the calipher.

cheers
Rohan

[collins_dan]

Thanks all. Sounds like axial play, as its not a twisting play, just an in and out play, and I'm not getting any sounds from the bearings that would indicate that they need replacing. I'll just check it periodically to make sure its not getting worse.

So here's my personal debate for this winter's big project, do I upgrade the suspension all around with TTR's fast road set up with adjustable rear platform, or do I upgrade the wheels and tires, or just tires. My current set-up is 2.25" inch rear springs, which have some kind of strange adjustment pieces at the top of the springs to raise of lower them, and 5.5" +2 steel wheels with 10 year old no brand 185/60/13's. I was planning to upgrade to 14" x 5.5" minilites with 185/60/14 Sumotomo AVS ES 100's or Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS's, or could stick with the current 13" wheels and just change out tires for Toyo Proxies RA-1s. Thoughts? Votes? I use the car for fast road driving and occasional autocross/track days?

Appreciate the input.

Dan