headers glow at idle

[rdssdi]

I just started my TC. I set the timing and the headers glow red at idle.

I thought that means the timimg is retarded. Do I need to determine TDC acurately to confirm the mark on the pulley?

Bob

[twincamman]

send your timing light back for repair ---- 5 to 10 degrees please -----ed

[Frank Howard]

Bob,

Is it possible that your fuel mixture is too lean?

[rdssdi]

I considered that but was told that at idle the mixture ould not do this. Furthermore, I was told, the Zenith Stromberg (federal U.S.) carbs are not adjustable. I understand that the later version stromberg adjustable pistons can be fit.

Has anyone had this problem? I am running stainless headers jet hot coated.

Bob

[1964 S1]

I'm gonna guess the problem is the "stainless" header. It was probably intended for an open wheel race car.
When was the last time you had your engine running, did it have a different header?
Elan engines are old, the cast iron exhaust manifold design is old... I think the stainless heat transfer equals glow. Be careful, fiberglass hates ANY orange heat, whether metal or electrical!

Do you Elan racers out there use stainless???

[c.d.s.]

Hello Bob,

Your headers are probably glowing red because of two reasons.

You have to rich of a mixture, or Your timing is too retarded.
The headers are glowing because the fuel is burning in them.

Albeit your car is a federal elan, my federal
europa had adjustable needles by the time it came into my ownership, so
unless you are the original owner it may have been altered with different
needles, etc...

The timing marks on your car maybe inaccurate, Please check TDC with
an appropriate tool (micrometer, piston stop) and make sure that you aren't going off incorrect marks.

A timing light with a 'dial back' would be most helpful for you as a standard
timing light relies heavily on correct markings. With a dial back you can
even check that your timing advance is in order also.

Or you can get out the marshmellows


best regards

cds

[rdssdi]

I spoke with the specialist who rebuilt the engine. He believes it is retarded timing. He said if it were a mixture problem the idle quality would be poor and rough running.

The distributor may be broken but unlikely. I will check the "points" plate to see if it has broken free. I am running a protronix (sp) now.


I will retime and see what happens.

Bob

[Briggs1]

Bob,

The type of metal in the header will not cause it to glow red.

A probable cause is a leak at the intake (causing a lean condition)

Check you timing by bringing the first cylinder to TDC (stick a long wooden dowel in the spark plug hole so you know it is at TDC) and see if your timing marks are correct.

I'm going with the lean burn. Carb, intake leak possible causes.

I have a stainless header on the Europa and it NEVER, EVER glows red when running correctly.

Briggs

[rdssdi]

Briggs

I agree. The carbs may be drawing air throught the flanges. I adjusted the thackery washers acording to spec but may need to be tightened.

Bob

[rdssdi]

I tightened my thackery washers. They still have "play" and the carbs remain "flexible".

I will start the engine tomorrow, Monday, and see if the headers glow hot.

I am running out of options if this fails. I am skeptical it was the problem as it appears to me that any air leakage would have been minimal. Anyone have any air leakage/thackery washer problems?

Bob

[twincamman]

ooook-----the Thackeray washers are so you don't over tighten the carbs and break off the ears on the head ---I know there will be a lot of 'no they are for yatta yatta' but thats what they are for ----second ---if you suspect a leak or want to check for air leaks ---[1 ]start the motor --[2 ]open your butane torch [ DO NOT LIGHT IT] and [3] point the nozzle around the carb -manifold join area ---the idle will smooth out if there is an intake leak -----check your timing ---and check there is no lleaking at the exhaust manifold head connections ----oxygen leaks will draw into the pipes and combust the exhaust gasses ---ed

[reb53]

Someone is going to have to explain this to me.

If you are so ham-fisted that you break the ears off the head by over-tightening the nuts, how does the presence of the Thackeray washers prevent you from still doing it?

Ralph.

[Lincoln62]

Weber carbs are mounted on soft mounts to stop engine vibration frothing the fuel in the bowl. The Thackeray washers keep a set tension on the soft mount. Too tight and you would distort the soft mount and it may not seal properly.

Pete
66S2

[rdssdi]

Pete is correct. I am running emissions period zenith stromberg carbs. All "soft mounted". It did not appear to me that much if any air would pass through the flange gap and past the o-ring. I am off to start the engine. I should have an answer shortly.

Pete do you own a 1962 Lincoln? My uncle had a 62 lincoln convert. Maybe 63 my memory is cloudy as I was a wee lad.

Bob

[twincamman]

I knew it -- ----this is why one must use a feeler guage to get the correct tension --fuel froth indeed !!!! but go ahead with a big 1/2 wrench and enjoy yourself ---but find a welder who can repair what you break first ----bear in mind this head was designed by a guy who made F1 cars -ed