LOTUS chassis vs Spyder someone pls help!

[el-saturn]

whoever claims one or the other of these is better must have proof. so who has a Timing sheet from Brands or even Castle Coombe etc.... where we can see for ourselves: BOTH Chassis would have to be, of course, unmodified. (or with same safety additions/Cage) + we all must assume they were all equally (+/-) equipped: tyres, Suspension layout and appr. power and even similiar experienced ELAN driver) soooooooooooooooo give it to us PLEASE sandy

[tvacc]

I know what you want here. if you want proof that you can see then I guess I cannot help you.

I have driven both chassis extensively since 1986, The Spyder car I have is a complete conversion made by Spyder cars back in about 1983/84. It was then brought over to the USA by the Spyder east coast of the USA distributor. He then put on a body with 26R fenders.

My Spyder car handles much beter than my stock Elans. A lot of that could be put down to the 185/60 tires and the wider track. But it really just handles like a modern car. Totally different feel than my 65 S2 or my 72 Sprint.

I know you want more of an exact answer provable answer, but there really is no comparison. They are totally different cars.

Tony V

[el-saturn]

thanks Tony - i expected something like that. BUT i don't think i'd have any Problems keeping up with a spyder, however i have the adjustable ttr race suspension, with proper springs, a safety devises cage, 175, a539s by Yokohama and maybe 170hp PLUS all of my 5 USED kart Chassis by Mike Wilson (Pseudo race!!???) many many moons ago - we'd have to "give" the spyder the same upgrades PS - if available i'd prefer racing condition examples tbh sandy PS a 26R has to be much better than any spyder, don^t we all agree??

[tvacc]

I have never driven a real 26R or a GTS. I hope to buy a GTS one day.

What I can tell you is that I bought my car from a doctor who bought it from the East Coast Spyder Dist.
When I got it from him the doctor was vintage racing it....back in 1986 or 87.

About 3 Years later I am standing on the false grid at Watkins Glen Vintage. A guy in a Lotus Formula car is waving at me to come over to him. I think it was like the car Peter Lovely had. That era formula car but I think it was a Formula B. It had a wing on it and was quite big with a V8 as I recall. It may have been a Formula 1 car for all I know. He had his helmet visor down so I did not recognize him. As I approached him, he lifted his visor and I see it is the doctor.

He asked me if I still had the Spyder Elan. I said I did. He said he owned the Formula car he was in and the Lotus 23 sitting next to him (with a drop dead beautiful long dark haired girl driving it, kind of tough to forget). He said that the Elan was the best handling and most fun car he ever had and it included the 23 sitting next to him and the Formula B car he was in.

I find it hard to believe, but that is what he said.

[gus]

Anyone who has changed to a Spyder will tell you it is stiffer than the stock, stiffer is better. The first time you jack the car up it is obvious, the rear tire follows the front immediately

The biggest issue is that you need a new chassis in any car you are considering. An original chassis is on its way to dying, a galvy or spyder is just maintenance.

[JimE]

Anyone who has changed to a Spyder will tell you it is stiffer than the stock, stiffer is better. The first time you jack the car up it is obvious, the rear tire follows the front immediately

The biggest issue is that you need a new chassis in any car you are considering. An original chassis is on its way to dying, a galvy or spyder is just maintenance.

.

I hope to keep my original chassis which I've had powder coated but would only replace with a Lotus one. Jim

[Davidb]

Mine too--although I did "26R" it.

[alan.barker]

Like has been said before many people who fit a Spyder chassis say it is better BUT a small detail they have compared it to the VERY TIRED Lotus Chassis they are replacing. Surely to be objective they should compare NEW with NEW.
For normal driving with a Lotus Chassis and original springs + shocks the Elans are so comfortable. A real pleasure with good suspension and not karting.
One things for sure you will not get a simple answer which is what you are looking for.
It's all about personal tastes
Alan

[el-saturn]

alan - that's why i was hoping for a time sheet: just for your memory: a 1.32.00 would be very quick at brands imho (in a 26R??) sandy PS - chassis fatigue is not an issue if you a cage which prevents the SOFT STUFF from twisting!!

[Spyder fan]

Sandy,
It?s pretty impossible to answer your question properly. Most competition formula insist on original equipment as available before a certain cut off date, so in most cases that precludes the use of a Spyder Spaceframe chassis. Therefore it?s unlikely that you will ever find two GTS 26R clones that are identical apart from the chassis used.

Supposedly the Spyder Spaceframe is stiffer than the standard folded metal item, but it?s not clear to me if this is necessarily a good thing. The modifications over a standard folded chassis carried out to the 26R style chassis most likely address the stiffness difference.

The history of the Spyder Spaceframe stems from a threatened lawsuit when Lotus finally woke up to the fact that they were losing valuable sales for spares that they previously couldn?t be bothered with until they saw how many Spyder were making for an eager public wanting to keep their Elans on the road. The result was a redesign that allowed Spyder to continue producing replacement chassis which they marketed as an improvement over the original pattern which perhaps was an important fact back in the days before ?the cult of originality? gained momentum.

The lawsuit is long gone as is the patent for the folded chassis. Spyder will make a folded chassis for you if you want one with the benefit that you can order it 2k low baked to your colour choice, and it will be guaranteed to be straight and not distorted by galvanising.

Sandy,
Bring your car to the UK and stay with me as my guest, we will do some track days and test your theory about being able to keep up!

[el-saturn]

great idea alan!! ...............do you have any buddies who go to dijon, hockenheim or so with a 1/2 empty trailer?? so i can catch a ride. back south i could maybe get a ride in one of the red bull F1 trailers as i know a few important folks there! sandy
here's my chassis before it got the cage

[Verve]

I can only speak from 35 years of Elan Road Driving ... & I have owned all the chassis variants ... & I think they are all good ....

However , when we say "handling" ... without doubt my best one , is my original Factory Built Sprint Drophead ... which is still on it`s original Lotus Chassis !

It doesn`t handle like a modern wide tyred car ... it handles better ... it`s so compliant & forgiving on our English B roads ... I wouldn`t drive anything else ...

As for out & out track grip , a road car isn`t set-up for that ... so , I`ll leave that to the race experts ; )

Paul .

[alan.barker]

foto-2.jpg (56.14 KiB) Viewed 3933 times

Let the photo do the talking
Alan

[Craven]

Basically you are asking can the performance of a standard Lotus Elan chassis be improved? Clearly the answer is yes as Lotus themselves produced the 26R chassis.

[rgh0]

The 26R chassis mods don't do much, if anything, for chassis torsional stiffness which is the key parameter for race handling with a stiff suspension. They are aimed at reinforcing the locations that crack when running a stiff suspension.

The Spyder chassis is probably stiffer in torsion than the Lotus chassis and thus you should be able to set up a race car to handle more predictably and better..... if you put in the development time but I don't know if anyone has.

For road handling on standard or fast road suspension the chassis torsional stiffness difference between the two chassis is not significant versus all the other variables.

cheers
Rohan