Upright crack/s

[cal44]

Here are a couple of pictures of some lovely cracks on the passenger side upright. We cut some flat stock and placed it inside the upright. Drilling holes in the cracks allows a good tie-in to the flat stock. As for welding inside the upright, not much fun as getting the nose in inside doesn't allow for good viewing while welding. That and my big fat German head with an arc hood. A little dress up with a metal sanding disk, Por-15 and spray a little undercoat. The metal is so nice (other than the cracks) it looks as though the frame was made last week. Not one pit anywhere.

All I wanted to do was put in new springs and shocks........hmmmm......that didn't happen. More later.

[AlfaLofa]

Well at least you found the cracks before any disaster occurred !

What with these cracks, failing master cylinders and under bonnet fires all being reported in the last few days I'm beginning to think it might be best just to leave the car in the garage.

[ceejay]

pivot-pin-front-susp-01.png (10.8 KiB) Viewed 1551 times

The strengthening cups as supplied on the original suspension pivot pins
See scan from factory W/shop manual below
are designed to spread the load, if pins have been replaced they
should still have the strengthening cups....even if they have to be machined.
The cracks that you have could well be because there are no cups.
Other photo is one of a set of new pivot pins we have machined for
an Aussie customer.

[512BB]

Alfa wrote; Well at least you found the cracks before any disaster occurred

The disaster is about to occur. You are taking your life in your hands, and anyone who rides with you Mike, if you put that chassis back on the road. It would be pure scrap here in the UK. I understand your reluctance, ie the cost and possibly difficulty in obtaining a new one, in not replacing the chassis, but where safety is concerned, I am sure you have made the wrong call on that one. Just my humble.

Leslie

[cal44]

ceejay.......nice machine work on the cup.

Leslie.......so in the U.K one needs to replace the entire rust free frame because of some cracks in an upright?
holy smokes...............

Fellers, I'm sure over the many decades this has been brought up but I will mention it. By observation of an upright in general, I would think the biggest problem (besides the pivot pin through the upright area) one should be concerned about is the vertical to flat edge where the top of the shock goes through. This is welded, so you have a thin weld holding that top together.

The up and down force of the suspension on what a friend calls tissue paper metal, is quite substantial to include the constant pressure by the spring.
I think just for giggles I will fab up from plate some bits and get to weldin'. Might as well do the other side while everything is apart. I like the idea of some gussets top front to make sure the metal doesn't separate.
I had similar problems with a Sunbeam Tiger.
Regards,
mike

[Mazzini]

If we in the UK we had to pay what the continental cousins have to pay for a chassis then I for one would be enrolling in welding classes. We're spoilt for choice, that said there are some fabulous companies in the US and Jeff at JAE was outstanding when I needed some CV drive shafts, but to my knowledge, nobody in the US makes chassis, so there is shipping, handling and taxes...so what do you do?

[ceejay]

There is no need to be paranoid about repairing cracks in sheet metal. If correct preparation and welding
procedures are followed, almost anything can be repaired If you know how. But there are times when the damage done could make a repair situation borderline.

The problem with the elan chassis front towers is one of access. And it is much easier to do repairs with a totally bare chassis to allow proper access, and also to roll the chassis to the required angle to allow quality welding to be done.

With the light gauge metal such as the front towers are fabricated from, the Oxy Welding method can be the solution to many welding repairs, Oxy welding has lost ground these days in favour of TIG & MIG, but think about it, in years gone by Oxy welding was the mainstay of the aircraft industry, and also the auto-racing industry, and even today, there are times when the Oxy welding method will be a better option than TIG or MIG.
The Oxy welding outfit (As old as it is) is still my favourite tool in the workshop, but to many people, the Oxy welding method is a lost art.
So yes, you can repair cracks in the elan chassis, after all, it's only metal.

[Bud English]

I second CeeJay's comments, both about the repair-ability of our sheet metal chassis and the use of A/O welding. If you get a chance check out my second favorite online forum for tips on the subject. Even with a glass bodied car there's still plenty of metal parts you can make that aren't readily available otherwise. Have a look at the section on welding sheet metal. Take a good look around, but don't get lost. That place can suck hours from your life if you're not careful.

http://allmetalshaping.com/index.php

[ceejay]

The All Metal Shaping forum certainly has a lot of info, just about every topic is covered,
except metal casting. The more skills you can learn, the more things you can do for yourself,
thanks for the link Bud English.
Ceejay..

[cal44]

I figured if one side would crack then what is to stop the other side from doing the same thing.
I can't tell you how many cars we have done where one side was fixed and the other not. No excuse for cheap or lazy.
Cut more flat stock and in they went ( the drivers side was crack free, bet they can't say that about Detroit). Now, if these uprights brake it will be a miracle.........or bad welding....

Thanks for input fellas........until my next adventure. Which will be a spring compressor from 4" channel (2 pieces) threaded stock, pipe pups to prevent me getting spring damage to my grill................

mike

[AHM]

It would be pure scrap here in the UK.

No It wouldn't!

Leslie.......so in the U.K one needs to replace the entire rust free frame because of some cracks in an upright?

In the UK you would be required to repair it to be at least as strong as the original. As it is in a structural area there are tighter rules on how you can repair it.

Clearly a weakness that Lotus identified as they added the strengthening disc.

I would go belt and braces on the strengthening as it looks like a big fatigue crack and you are mig welding it.

[snowyelan]

I'm curious as to when these discs were added to the upper pivots. I have an original chassis (based on the stamped number) from 69 that doesn't have the upper re-inforcements, just the lowers. No cracks showing. The opening that the spring/shock enters doesn't have a welded re-inforcement edge added either. Your edging appears original based on the primer/paint. Anybody have any insight as to when these changes happened? I haven't come across any running changes with the chassis, but have been out of the loop for awhile....

And I just caught the +2 part, that might explain it......as I have its smaller older brother.

[ceejay]

Add some extra strength with a tower cross brace, a mod that can only be done
in bare chassis mode, but it will certainly brace the tower uprights, but not practical
if you still have vacuum headlamp pod operation.

[Bud English]

My '70 +2S (fed) has the cup washers on the lower pins only. The top pins look very much like the original poster's (minus the cracks in the uprights). The repair manual and parts manual both seem to bare this out. I think you'd have to fabricate smaller cup washers if you wanted to add them to the top pins. On my chassis there doesn't appear to be enough room for full sized washers over the top pins.