Converting a +2S to Spyder chassis with a Zetec

[Craig Elliott]

FWIW the Zetec on ebay spotted by Spyderfan further up in the post is the very car tested against my, more or less, standard +2. At that price it seems to me to be a very good deal - If I recall correctly it has full Option 1 body resto and paint job, new spyder chassis and suspension, new driveline and brakes, very pokey zetec engine, leather interior etc etc for ?16k...

By the time you've changed the chassis so that you can fit the zetec and replaced all of the bits that you'd replace "while it was apart" plus the "new" gearbox, driveline, engine, electrickery, wheels brakes etc... I wonder how close to that sum you'd be - even if you did all the work yourself and didn't pay for labour?

Craig

[Elanintheforest]

Jerry Thurston's Spyder is for sale again for ?15950 after a grand 190 miles and a rebuild cost of ?33,000 for the full treatment.

That's ?90 per mile depreciation!!!!!

You'd have to do a lot of miles to justify having one on the grounds of fuel economy or cheaper parts.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lotus-Elan-1973-L ... tsupported

Mark

[blackandgold]

I followed the story of the build project with this car in classics monthly
and it shows that you can get carried away with this sort of project
and blow the budget completly, if they had started with a better car
it would have saved money as the body was well gone also pressure to
finnish the project meant using expensive by the hour workers

At the conclusion Jerry and his wife were too scared to drive the car in case it got
scratched as well as I suspect the spec made it too race focussed for day
to day use as was originaly intended

Still it would now make a good buy for a Zetec fan at under half price of the
build cost, I know that I would be tempted if it was in Australia

Another point about the feelings of using zetec's in elans and 6 litre V12's
in E types is that there is perhaps a family history or evolution connection with these engines
and the originals that make it OK

[Spyder fan]

Jerry Thurston's Spyder is for sale again for ?15950 after a grand 190 miles and a rebuild cost of ?33,000 for the full treatment.

That's ?90 per mile depreciation!!!!!

You'd have to do a lot of miles to justify having one on the grounds of fuel economy or cheaper parts.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lotus-Elan-1973-L ... tsupported

Mark

Mark
Perhaps he hates the car which is why its done just 190 miles, I often do that in a day sometimes twice that distance.

I hadn't thought about the resale value of my car as I have no intention of selling, but it is a pure indulgence, a 2-3 year old Boxster or Cayman would be a more sensible choice, but who said I was sensible. Walking into Spyder was a bit like going to a new car showroom and saying I'll have that one in Royal Blue with Tan Leather and then getting talked into the performance upgrade by the pushy salesman and knowing that I would lose 10k as soon as I drove it off the forecourt.

I hope the 3 poor sods selling their +2 zetecs at the moment realised all of this and are not too gutted. If any of them had come up 18 months ago I would have snapped at least one of them up, but no one was selling back then.

I wonder what Spyder would charge for a fully built to original +2 to the same standard as their zetec builds? I guess ?25 - ?30k....... what would be the realistic resale value of one of those? I would bet ?15 - ?18 k max, thats a lot to justify originality

[Elanintheforest]

You're absolutely right Alan. A Peter Day restored original Plus 2 was sold by Matty 18 months ago for ?17k, and that had the best part of ?30k spent on it.

My point was more that many folks justify doing the conversion or having the car on the basis that it's more economical on fuel and replacement parts. Others will justify having one on the basis that the original is totally unreliable and couldn't be considered to be an everyday car. These are both daft reasons for having a Spyder or doing the conversion, and very obviously wrong!. If people just said that they liked the idea and the challenge of the project, together with the potential increase in power, then perhaps the suggestions wouldn't be quite so controversial to some.

It does seem to be strange that many months after it's completion it's still only done 190 miles. Perhaps if it was 2000 miles the car would be worth a bit more. I'm just finishing the restoration of a pair of E Types. One has just been re-trimmed and is being set up and fettled by an E Type specialist, who expects to complete between 500 and 1000 miles to fully shake down the car. All the cars I've restored need that sort of use to prove them out, and I'm sure Jerry's car will be no exception.
Mark

[Spinney]

My raison d'etre for doing it is purely because I want to and because I can. I do also like the added bonus of a more modern, not to say more powerful and reliable, powertrain but still my main reason for doing it will be because that kind of thing gives me pleasure.

The car is a pure indulgence for me and fortunately my wife supports me in that so, therefore, I am lucky in that I don't need to justify it to anybody else. I have been without the sort of car I can fettle and play with in the garage, rather than just drive, for nearly a year now so I can't wait to get started.

[Elanintheforest]

Good stuff, Spinney. I've long since stopped trying to justify or rationalise my hobby as well! Time has proven my previous feeble attempts wrong, and I'm also lucky enough to have a very understanding Missis.

So, to keep you inspired, here's a couple of pictures of John's S4 with Zetec. He gets a little bashful when I put these up, but I think that what he's achieved is quite stunning.

An interesting debate may be carburettors vs. injection? I would probably go the carburettor route as it keeps the conversion simple, retains some of the original 'feel' of the car, doesn't hack into the wiring loom and allows the fuel supply / petrol tank to remain standard. Nothing against injection...just a route to simplicity! I have got all the bits together to convert my V12 E Type to injection, as 8 mpg vs. 26 mpg is fairly significant, even with relatively low-mileage use.

Mark

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Good stuff, Spinney. I've long since stopped trying to justify or rationalise my hobby as well! Time has proven my previous feeble attempts wrong, and I'm also lucky enough to have a very understanding Missis.

So, to keep you inspired, here's a couple of pictures of John's S4 with Zetec. He gets a little bashful when I put these up, but I think that what he's achieved is quite stunning.

An interesting debate may be carburettors vs. injection? I would probably go the carburettor route as it keeps the conversion simple, retains some of the original 'feel' of the car, doesn't hack into the wiring loom and allows the fuel supply / petrol tank to remain standard. Nothing against injection...just a route to simplicity! I have got all the bits together to convert my V12 E Type to injection, as 8 mpg vs. 26 mpg is fairly significant, even with relatively low-mileage use.

Mark

A nice couple of Photos there Mark; you've gone & done it now, the Sun's shining (at last) & I'm off right now to pull it out of the Garage & hope that Plod's not around the corner
John

[Spinney]

I agree that carbs would be the simpler solution but I will almost certainly go throttle bodies and an Emerald ECU. I have experience of modding a Zetec from carbs to injection on the first of my Caterhams so I'm happy that it won't be too tricky to achieve.

With that car, I kept the standard tank and fitted an external swirl pot with high and low pressure fuel pumps but in this case I may look at fabricating a new tank with a submersible high pressure pump mounted in the side. That would simplify the wiring and do away with one pump to improve reliability - in theory anyway.

Once converted to throttle bodies, that Zetec just never misbehaved and always started on the button, hot or cold. I particularly like the Emerald ECU as you can play with it yourself from a laptop and fiddle around with the fuelling if, for example, it is hesitant when cold. The software used is very intuitive in its operation.

That Zetec installation in the S4 does look very neatly done.

[Elanintheforest]

You could try this guy for tanks, swirl pots etc. Stunning workmanship, and he'll incorporate any mods you want:

business-listings-f3/axminster-specialist-panels-t14137.html

Mark

[Spinney]

Thanks yes, I know Andy well from the Caterham world where he does a lot of work. Top bloke and great workmanship.

[terryp]

Obi-Old Engine: I felt a great disturbance in the Twincam Force, as if hundreds of cars suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened. Spyder cars!
Zetec Vader : Your powers are weak, old engine.
Obi-Old Engine (1558cc Twincam): You can't win, Zetec Vadar. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Obi-Old Engine: Use the Twincam, Spinney Use the Twimcam ............
To be continued..........

Ps only a bit of fun , I think that red car is really nice!

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Obi-Old Engine: I felt a great disturbance in the Twincam Force, as if hundreds of cars suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened. Spyder cars!
Zetec Vader : Your powers are weak, old engine.
Obi-Old Engine (1558cc Twincam): You can't win, Zetec Vadar. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Obi-Old Engine: Use the Twincam, Spinney Use the Twimcam ............
To be continued..........

Ps only a bit of fun , I think that red car is really nice!

Yup, when you boil it all down to the nitty gritty getting the colour right comes in at number 1
Cheers
John

[terryp]

OK for you John the concluding part (I 'd better do some work then)

Zetec Vader: Impressive. Most impressive. Obi-Old Engine has taught you well. You have controlled your leaks. Now, release your power. Only your iconic stature and classic following can destroy me.
ZetecVader: There is no escape. Don't make me disassemble and put your parts on eBay Twincam, I think your oil is beginning to leak?..
Zetec Vader: Twincam, you do not yet realize your iconic stature. You have only begun to discover your power. Join me, and I will complete your tuning. With our combined power in all Lotus Elans, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to LotusElan.net.
Twincam: I'll never join you!
Zetec Vader: If you only knew the power of the Zetec. Obi-Old Engine never told you what happened to your Son.
Twincam: He told me enough! He told me you killed him!
Zetec Vader: No. I am your son.
Twincam: No. No. That's not true. That's impossible!
Zetec Vader: Search your feelings, you *know* it to be true!
Twincam: No! No! No! No! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[andyelan]

Hi Everyone

Just to be really boring for a moment, has anyone considered what the legal implications might be in this day and age if a Zetec engined car was involved in a serious accident where someone was badly injured or killed.

As things might appear, here is an old car with a engine twice as powerful as it was designed for and which goes significantly faster than ever intended. I realize that it would be argued that the car has been significantly re-engineered to account for this, however, I?d suggest that in most cases, decimation will still have it as a 60s-70s Lotus Plus 2. A kit car built from scratch of course wouldn?t have this problem because it would have to have an inspection carried out by a DVLA Engineer before it could be registered for road use. Also, there?s the possibility that if a car is built up by the owner, as opposed to say someone like Spyder, he might not be considered ?competent? to have carried out such a re-engineering job. These days no matter how good or capable one actually is ?competence? requires qualification and certificates these days. Finally of course there?s the possibility of how Lotus react in order to avoid any possible chance they might become embroiled in a case which might show them up in a bad light.

It might be worth reflecting that recently there?s a local case in which a modified Land rover crashed into a river killing two children. The car did have an MOT and was road legal, however, the driver has still ended up in prison for driving what was considered an unsafely modified vehicle

Andy