Replacement chassis: how long might it last?

[Grizzly]

Gus your a hero, you have no idea what your talking about but you keep coming back for more.........

You have convinced your self that replacing the chassis is just what you do with Elans and that the original chassis was so bad it needs replacing as soon as it left the factory.. Now let me guess.... I put my money on you having a Spyder chassis !! and if so i'd be watching those high speed turns your self some of the early ones where CONSIDERABLY weaker than the Factory Lotus chassis. But you'll come back call it baloney because lets face it you have it firmly planted in your head that because your poor welding skills let you down no one else could possibly do a better job

[greg40green]

I have owned several Elans over 25 years and have completed several chassis changes with Lotus replacement chassis and have noted that not all Elan's have chassis numbers either on original chassis or the LR chassis.
Since noting this I have made a point when I can of looking for a chassis number or to see if the chassis numbers are located in more than one place ie top of the 'Y' section engine bay, to date I have seen as many chassis's without numbers as with.
1 ) Did all chassis's on Lotus Elans ( 2 seater's ) leave the factory with a chassis number either scribed or stamped?
2) Did Lotus put chassis numbers in more than one place if so where were they put?
3) Are chassis numbers always stamped or scribed onto chassis ie which one or both? .

Out of interest is there many out there with there original chassis?

I only ask as i work for a place that restores Classic cars and changing chassis rather than repairing just isn't done (it would have to be Missing or servilely damaged to be changed). That said it seems common in the Elan world?

Ah, but the Elan 'chassis' is not a chassis of the classic car type. it is merely a subframe of the fibreglass.


Ho many classic Minis still have their original subframes?

A Mini is a bad example, as above it's not got a chassis and the Mini Subframes aren't Numbered (even though they are slightly different so will always be kept if possible(really not hard to repair a mini subframe next to the amount of welding most mini shells require)) a Lotus Elan is a Numbered Chassis and to me it doesn't make sense to loose the numbers matching as its such a simple structure to repair? i get some may be beyond redemption but most people just replace as a matter of course in a restoration which baffles me.

I spend most of my time working with Jags and there can be thousands of pounds difference in a full matching numbers car and one fitted with a new engine/Body/Subframe etc i just find it odd that Lotus isn't the same.

Maybe its just that most people don't know where to look for the number or assume it doesn't have one??? Duno....

[greg40green]

I have owned several Elans over 25 years and have completed several chassis changes with Lotus replacement chassis and have noted that not all Elan's have chassis numbers either on original chassis or the LR chassis.
Since noting this I have made a point when I can of looking for a chassis number or to see if the chassis numbers are located in more than one place ie top of the 'Y' section engine bay, to date I have seen as many chassis's without numbers as with.
1 ) Did all chassis's on Lotus Elans ( 2 seater's ) leave the factory with a chassis number either scribed or stamped?
2) Did Lotus put chassis numbers in more than one place if so where were they put?
3) Are chassis numbers always stamped or scribed onto chassis ie which one or both? .

[Grizzly]

I have owned several Elans over 25 years and have completed several chassis changes with Lotus replacement chassis and have noted that not all Elan's have chassis numbers either on original chassis or the LR chassis.
Since noting this I have made a point when I can of looking for a chassis number or to see if the chassis numbers are located in more than one place ie top of the 'Y' section engine bay, to date I have seen as many chassis's without numbers as with.
1 ) Did all chassis's on Lotus Elans ( 2 seater's ) leave the factory with a chassis number either scribed or stamped?
2) Did Lotus put chassis numbers in more than one place if so where were they put?
3) Are chassis numbers always stamped or scribed onto chassis ie which one or both? .

I've seen 8 or 9 2 seaters and not come across one without a stamp on but knowing Lotus it wouldn't shock me that some where missing etc.

The ones i've seen have been in one of the three circled places, i have the advantage of seeing them after they have been shot blasted (we record things like that and take pictures for the owner) all the ones i've seen have been stamped just like pharriso's Picture on the previous page. I've only ever come across one aftermarket Galv Lotus chassis and i didn't want to take the coating off to check if it was numbered

[pharriso]

In the picture I posted the chassis is actually stamped ahead of the engine mount on the carburetor side. Typical Lotus procedure I guess

[Grizzly]

In the picture I posted the chassis is actually stamped ahead of the engine mount on the carburetor side. Typical Lotus procedure I guess

Ok four places then aren't lotus great for there consistency i guess no one likes to be Predicable

[gus]

Gus your a hero, you have no idea what your talking about but you keep coming back for more.........

You have convinced your self that replacing the chassis is just what you do with Elans and that the original chassis was so bad it needs replacing as soon as it left the factory.. Now let me guess.... I put my money on you having a Spyder chassis !! and if so i'd be watching those high speed turns your self some of the early ones where CONSIDERABLY weaker than the Factory Lotus chassis. But you'll come back call it baloney because lets face it you have it firmly planted in your head that because your poor welding skills let you down no one else could possibly do a better job

I am afraid it is you who have no idea what you are talking about

All of the repairs on my factory chassis were professionally welded by various people at various times, before and after I owned it. An while there is some evidence[ I have seen a picture] of early spyder chassis being damage, there is voluminous irrefutable evidence of multiple factory chassis failures.

You keep replacing facts with your opinion of what 'should' be valuable. Just look at the posts here, people having done multiple chassis changes, I guess we are all a lot of fools who need to spend money for nothing


Keep knurling your cast iron valve guides, rinse out your oil filters for all I care an feel free to call your car the finest most original example, just don't expect anyone to pay for it

[collins_dan]

I don't think you two are going to agree. You should probably stop trying. The sub-frame/chassis lasts different lengths of time for different people, living in different environments and using their cars in different manners. Check the frame before you buy a car. There are a couple of places to look at carefully, such as connection points like engine mounts, front and rear suspensions and at bottoms of uprights, both front and rear. These are the spots that you hear about most commonly. Mine actually separately at the top of the rear towers, which is a common spot for reinforcement. I now know why. A new frame is not necessarily a bad thing. An original frame isn't a bad thing either, as long as it is in a condition that will suit your purposes. Dan

[Grizzly]

Yep Dan, as you can probably tell i get alerts on my phone and i drawn into mindless arguments WAY too easy. Especially when i'm in-between jobs.

[gus]

Obviously, you are correct Dan

Here's the problem, about the only way to really check the chassis is to cut the shock towers off and inspect the crossmember closing plates.



All you can tell from an external examination is if the chassis has failed, not the odds of it failing 20, 200, 2000 miles down the road.

There is a [Sanders] HUUGE[/Sanders] difference between getting a car at a good price with an un-failed chassis and waiting to replace it when you actually have a problem, or balancing the cost of repairing a cracking chassis with the immediate upfront cost of a new replacement chassis; to proposing that an original chassis is preferable to a replacement chassis, the failure rate of which is miniscule.

[peterexpart]

So reading the subsequent replies, every chassis had a number stamped into it, not all chassis's had a number stamped into them, some chassis's had a number stamped into them but nobody knows exactly where.
How typically Lotus !!!!
And you wonder why there is no premium paid for a car with matching numbers !!!

[Grizzly]

No Gus what your saying is all Original chassis are dangerous........ and there just not. For that matter someone could fit a Replacement chassis and it be rotten within ten year if not looked after do you still cut the shock towers off?

[Grizzly]

So reading the subsequent replies, every chassis had a number stamped into it, not all chassis's had a number stamped into them, some chassis's had a number stamped into them but nobody knows exactly where.
How typically Lotus !!!!
And you wonder why there is no premium paid for a car with matching numbers !!!

We figured this one out many posts back (Numbers matching cars are worth more (it's some thing done to add value to blue chip cars) but its very hard to do with an Elan because of poor records and bad QC) that's not the issue, rgh0 and 512BB summed it up well then its taken a big side ways step with this daft argument that an Original Chassis can't be kept road worthy, all of them need to be replaced and was some how a replaceable item when the car was new which for some one that restores cars for a living is a Ludicrous statement and one that's proved wrong virtually every day with way more complicated chassis in way worse condition.

Frankly i'm sick of arguing.

[rgh0]

Yes they did, like:
..

Like most Lotus things they only did it sometimes and it was not on the original subframe of my 68 Elan or 73 Plus 2.
Stamping it on the sub frame of my cars would make it unorginal but matching numbers

cheers
Rohan

[jimj]

The "matching number" cachet adds value as it suggests in people`s minds that a particular car has had little or gentle use, been cossetted etc.
As I`ve said before; THE premier restorer of pre-war ????s will build you a whole, brand new, uprated engine with the block stamped with your "matching" numbers. I imagine others will too so the whole thing is facetious.

Incidentally, if you had a car the same as one entered in the original Mille Miglia, not the actual one which would be a shoe-in, you wouldn`t be even considered for an entry unless it was matching numbers and totally to original spec...............................or appeared to be!

Back to the original poster`s question; none of this applies to Elans except that, increasingly, cars that attract the highest prices must be to original, factory specification. A concourse car wouldn`t have a Spyder chassis nor, I suspect, its original chassis which is hardly likely to be in mint condition.
Jim