Chassis replacement in Single Garage - Logistics?

[ardee_selby]

oh dear what ever did they do on the car Richard??They look primitive enough to be factory parts ed

I'll send a PM with some more detail!

Later - Richard

[stugilmour]

Thanks chaps, I think I have some planning to do!
Has anyone just jacked the body off the chassis? One end at a time?

Cheers
Terry

Terry, for body removal I used four light weight rope block & tackle sets mounted overhead with some dimensional lumber supported by scaffolding. Although this worked, I would not bother with this method a second time. The difficulty is controlling things and keeping the ropes off of the curved body sides. The recommended body attachment points may be different on the Elan, but I was using the Plus 2 jacking points in the intact side rails and these are a few inches inboard of the body sides. Jacking was required in any case to separate the frame and body.

For body installation I used four scissor type platform jacks (billed as ATV lifts) like this:

http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product ... e/ATV-Lift

Much more controllable, and the job can be done taking your time. Recommend getting some jacks with the maximum lift you can find. I used this type of jack as I think they had 20" or so of lift. The normally available rolling hydraulic jack (that you can get under the body) is only about 9" to 11" of lift.

In order to get the body up high enough to clear the rear suspension towers the body needs to be jacked in two or three steps. I made up eight blocks roughly 24" square by 6_1/2" and 10" high (two sets of 4 blocks). They are screwed together dimensional lumber. The blocks were used to support the jacks and the body at the different lift steps.

I found ~18" square plywood pads sufficient to spread the jacking loads on the body floor pan, although 24" square would be safer if they fit the Elan floor pan. Note extra load is required to separate the body from the frame, particularly in the centre spine as it will be kind of 'glued' in place by sitting on the fibre pad for years, so it is not just the body weight you are dealing with.

With the body at the maximum required height to clear the rear towers the whole deal starts to become a bit unstable, so I found it advisable to screw the jacks down to the 24" square wooden blocks to prevent shifting. This probably sounds way more hairy than it is, but you definitely need to have things planned out so you don't have to go under the body at this stage and you have assistance to keep things stable and moving along.

I think I have posted some photo's previously of both the removal (divorce?) and marrying process. Can dig up the links for you if it would help.

I now find the blocks excellent for supporting the assembled car on either the floor pan or on the tires, depending on the service being performed. My car is presently sitting on the tires about 17" in the air waiting for some attention, and it is completely stable with no weird loads on the suspension or body/frame. I think of the blocks and platform jacks as my 'poor man's lift'.

PS, just saw in your question about going one end at a time with the jacking. I don't think this will work very well. Four separate synchronized jacking points will keep things stable and allow you to gradually lift and let down the body pretty much straight. The clearances to the frame towers and parts of the engine are pretty tight, so things have to be lined up during the process. As mentioned above, you will probably have to move the body several times (off, on to mark, off to drill and tap, and on to secure), so figuring out a way that works for you and your available work space is time well spent. At least for the Plus 2, it is advised to have the engine in place during the marking process to avoid clearance issues with the bonnet, so it is difficult to drill and tap the front tower holes with the body in place, hence the additional lifts.

HTH

[Foxie]

Here's how I did it

[Sea Ranch]

So, Sean and Stu . . .

Are we saying that lifting from the sill jacking points is a good idea or not? If a guy put two pins on a plank or beam that could be received by the sill jacking tubes (and repeated on the other side), could the body be lifted from overhead? Could the straps lifting on the beams each side be allowed to press up against the body panels during the lift? If the initial "break-away" pressure (separating stuck chassis and body) was applied from underneath (jacking on plywood-pads-on-floorpan), could the rest of the lift be done from overhead as I've described? Would this be sufficient to get the body above the rear strut height, get the chassis rolled out and a dolly for the body shell rolled underneath??

I should add that I'm planning on leaving the body largely intact as I'm not planning on stripping and painting the body; just a full mechanical rebuild. This would mean the body would be "full/complete" (minus seats, carpet, underlay) and therefore quite a bit heavier than a stripped shell.

Thanks for your clarifications and experiences . . .

Randy

[Jason1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVQ3PuAUKps

Here is how Matt did his in a single garage. I think they are called Farm Jacks?

Jason

[UAB807F]

Thanks chaps, I think I have some planning to do!
Has anyone just jacked the body off the chassis? One end at a time?

Cheers
Terry

Yes Terry, that's how I did mine. I took the engine out but left the bellhousing/gearbox in the chassis, at the time I thought there might not be enough clearance.

pics - http://www.martley.plus.com/elan11.html

Brian

[terryp]

Thanks to all, I will have to print out and read thoroughly!
One quick question is why do you need to tap anything? I haven't even got a good set of taps!!!

Terry

[Elanintheforest]

Terry, the front and rear towers have to be tapped, along with the area just behind the dash, from memory. They have to be tapped as you couldn't get a nut where one is needed, and as every body / chassis is different, a factory 'captive nut' would usually be in the wrong place. You'll have to buy yourself the correct drill bit and a couple of taps...no big deal.

Once you have the new chassis built up and rolling, you roll it under the body (remembering to put the felt saddle on first!). Lower to body onto it. I then add weight into the body and leave it for a couple of days to settle down properly on the chassis.

Then you need to centre-punch where the tapped holes are going to be, lift the body, roll out the chassis and drill / tap the holes. At this stage I always put the engine / gearbox in the chassis, then roll the chassis back under, lower the body, and do up all the nuts and bolts.

Brian Buckland's book has it all in, complete with drill and tap sizes etc.

Mark

[terryp]

Mark
That sounds like a plan!

I think I may revert to 4 helpers and my joists / hangers with the chassis rolling underneath
Rather like above (the farm jacks)

Thanks to all

Terry

[ardee_selby]

I think I may revert to 4 helpers ...Terry

I'm SO sorry Terry, I assumed you were like me...a "Billy No-mates".

I'm sure I've still got the (good quality) taps if you need 'em.

Postage to France may be cheaper than buying new. Let me know...

Regards - Richard

[terryp]

Richard
I am Billy "not many" mates, but luckily I just have enough to lift the chassis albeit one I have still to nurture, and one may be my wife!
Thanks for the offer of a loan of the taps , I will be contact!

Thanks to all ......now to get the car this Thursday!!!!!!!!
seen here in Cuzorn

Just have to put the roof rack on the Jeep for the chassis!

Terry

[Foxie]

So, Sean and Stu . . .

Are we saying that lifting from the sill jacking points is a good idea or not? If a guy put two pins on a plank or beam that could be received by the sill jacking tubes (and repeated on the other side), could the body be lifted from overhead? Could the straps lifting on the beams each side be allowed to press up against the body panels during the lift?

Yes, provided the lift rig only has the direct weight of the jacking points. And I also knew my jacking points were good, as I had recently fitted Spyder sills. Just putting pins in an otherwise unsupported plank would, imho, put a torque on the jacking points they were never designed to take.

I welded up the triangular side pieces from 1" box section, and bolted them to the ends of a 2" box section cross arm. This is the best pic I have at the moment, I hope you can figure it out.

With an equilateral triangle, there was a little too much weight to the rear, hence the concrete blocks on the nose of the body

[ardee_selby]

Thanks for the offer of a loan of the taps , I will be contact! Terry

Terry,

Some other points:

1.0 Found 'em ! And to prove it

2.0 Page 5 of the "Section B - Body" in my (S3) Workshop Manual gives the details of where they're used. (plus bolt lengths & the clearance holes for other fixing points).
Two sizes needed (3/8" UNF front turrets and top flanges & 7/16 UNF rear turrets)

I trust the S4 manual gives the same info, but please double check!

3.0 When it comes to removal you may be unlucky and have the bolts shear in the front and/or rear turrets. NO problem as it's being replaced. But, to quote Miles Wilkins, "You may be very unlucky" in which case they may not shear flush with the chassis and leave a "spigot" still in the bobbin!

4.0 I had two bolts shear off flush...a good pre-soak with penetrating oil might be wise before you start...and at the front it is easier to warm them up a bit before applying torque.

But hopefully yours will not have the corrosion of a UK car and will be a doddle.

HIH Cheers - Richard

[stugilmour]

Terry, great news if you can get the drills & taps from Richard. If the logistics turn out to be a hassle, an alternative might be getting the install kit from Spyder. Check their web site for details, as it was a while ago I did the job. At any rate, Spyder provided me with the exact drill bits and taps that were required, so no need for a full set if you are buying.

For getting exact alignment of the holes to be drilled in the chassis, a transfer punch set is great. The correct sized punch is inserted in the bobbin hole on the body and it exactly aligns the hole centre on the chassis. Heard about this neat tool here when I was doing my rebuild.

From Wiki...

A transfer punch is a punch (usually in an index set) of a specific outer diameter that is non-tapered and extends the entire length of the punch (except for the tip). It is used to tightly fit the tolerances of an existing hole and, when struck, precisely transfer the center of that hole to another surface. It can be used, for example, to duplicate the hole patterns in a part, or precisely set locations for threaded holes (created by drilling and tapping) to bolt an object to a surface.

Here is an example. For about $20 they work great. Come in a set so you just fit to the fibreglass holes as required.

http://www.leevalley.com/EN/wood/page.a ... at=1,43456

[stugilmour]

So, Sean and Stu . . .

Are we saying that lifting from the sill jacking points is a good idea or not? If a guy put two pins on a plank or beam that could be received by the sill jacking tubes (and repeated on the other side), could the body be lifted from overhead? Could the straps lifting on the beams each side be allowed to press up against the body panels during the lift? If the initial "break-away" pressure (separating stuck chassis and body) was applied from underneath (jacking on plywood-pads-on-floor pan), could the rest of the lift be done from overhead as I've described? Would this be sufficient to get the body above the rear strut height, get the chassis rolled out and a dolly for the body shell rolled underneath??

I should add that I'm planning on leaving the body largely intact as I'm not planning on stripping and painting the body; just a full mechanical rebuild. This would mean the body would be "full/complete" (minus seats, carpet, underlay) and therefore quite a bit heavier than a stripped shell.

Thanks for your clarifications and experiences . . .

Randy

Randy, pretty sure Sean's set-up was essentially equivalent to the method I used to lift the body. Heck, I used Sean's pic's as reference when I was figuring out how to do it.

I believe the issue Sean and I are trying to describe is the the same. Lifting planks (or two steel square tubes in my case, highly recommended as planks will bend ) can be put cross-ways under the body to support it in the air. All good and stable until the body is lowered to where the cross-ways lifting planks interfere with the centre spine of the chassis. At this point the body has to be supported without the cross planks, as they will just sit on the centre spine. Same idea for body removal; one has to get the body floor pan above the centre spine height before a cross plank can be placed.

The way I got around this during body removal is with threaded eyes that extended ~3" outboard of the jacking points. The eyes were connected to the block & tackle's hung from the scaffold. I used Ali square tubing rails down each side of the car with ready-rod pins into the jacking holes. Ali was a little light; if doing again I would use steel. I think this is what you have in mind. This method unfortunately puts a large twisting moment on the poor side rails at the jacking point holes, and in my experience could easily crack the body in this area. It worked for removal, but didn't think it the best way for lowering the newly painted body, so I went the jacking route to marry the body. Your idea of allowing the lifting strap to contact the side of the body would probably lessen the twist at the jacking holes, and would probably be better than the way I did it. I just couldn't see doing this with the freshly painted body. I think Sean got around the twisting at the jack holes by joining the top of his side triangles; I missed this subtlety when I did my set-up.

Like Sean, my side rails were known to be good; if your side rails are dodgy I would consider replacing them before lifting the body.

Using the ~18" to ~20" jacks from Princess Auto, I think the math was two lifts with plywood pads were required before the cross plank could be placed. Once the cross plank is placed, the jacks can be positioned outside of the body and rolling chassis. This allows the chassis to be removed out the back of the car. This is where I learned Ali side beams were too light. Ideal if the side beams are stiff enough to hold the body weight with the cross planks underneath them.

For the body weight, I think I had pretty much what you have in mind during removal. I left the glass, boot lid & doors in place, and stripped out the interior. Weight was not a big issue with the block & tackle method or the jacking method, although as Sean mentioned the body balance point is not in the middle as you might expect. My guess at body weight would be about 800 lb.

Anyway, jacks worked better for me and would absolutely do it that way again. Maybe when you are ready to do the job I could arrange to get the four jacks and the various ready rod and tube contraptions down to you as I don't use them regularly.

The Ali side beams fitted into the jacking points worked very well once I had the body off. I put two ready rods cross-ways to join the beams together, and added four castors. This formed a perfect cart to store the body and move it around.

HTH