A little caliper rebuild help, please...

[Bud English]

I'm having problems installing the dust boots on my front calipers. I have done this in the past but don't remember them being this difficult. I have 16P calipers. They have the narrow grooved pistons (new SS). There is no groved land on the outside of the caliper bore to accept the steel retaining ring as on the later calipers. I have the seal kit that I got from Ray at rdent. Unlike the rears, there is no separate grove for the boot "ridge" to seat into. It's supposed to go in the same groove as the piston seal (IIRC, as they say. It's been thirty years since I last did this). I searched here and on the web in general. I see threads that say, oh, ya, just slip it over the caliper and make sure that you push the lip into the bore first. When you push the piston in, the boot will seat. I don't think so!

Am I just getting, dare I say it, old and less nimble? Is there a trick I don't know? ...or maybe my seal kit is the wrong one for the job.

[garyeanderson]

Hi Bud

I don't have the pistons yet but this is what my early 16P calipers and dust seals look like. I need to get an order in for pistons but first I need to see what else I need.

Gary

[memini55]

Gary nice pictures but you did not give Bud any tips on the boot install?

[Bud English]

Gary - Your pictures were a big help. Although my calipers have 16P cast into them, they must be 16PB"s. Mine don't have that second recess cut for the boot lip. There is one recess that the piston seal just fits into. With the second recess putting the boots in would be much easier. There wasn't a caliper that had pistons with the narrow groove that had the boots that were retained by the steel rings, was there?

My main computer with all my pictures is down. I should get it back tomorrow or Thursday. I'll post some pictures of what I'm working with.

[Jason1]

Hi

Have a look at elan-f14/rear-caliper-seals-t24633.html

The first ones are the trickiest.

Jason

[garyeanderson]

Gary nice pictures but you did not give Bud any tips on the boot install?

I can't tell Bud how to install the seals as I can't see what he is looking at. I am internet blind and don't have a complete collection of type 16P calipers. Bud posted the question and I replied in about an hour and quarter with photos, It's not hard to ask questions, and not that much harder to put a photo in the question, then we all would be able to look at the problem and maybe offer some real help that might apply. I posted the reply and went to bed as I was tired and the end of the day in my book. I had the conversation with the guy that runs Spitbits and got the feeling that there were two types of seals for the type 16P calipers, cheap and expensive. The ones I showed were $32 plus the rest. The others were for calipers that had the machined raised ridge that the wire retainer springs sat on the rubber seal around the perimeter of the caliper piston bore.


like these, these are SP12 and type 14

The second groove ones are like these

If there is a third type, I don't have, nor have I seen it but I don't have the late model stuff, I think it only goes down hill when the late models came out...

Gary

[Bud English]

Here's my best shot of the caliper that I can come up with without my computer. As you can see there is no internal second grove and no machined groove for a retaining ring. The other numbers on the casting are 64327814, R1 (on the side with the patent numbers) and 64326047, RH on the other.

Sorry about the file size. I'm lost without Photoshop'

[memini55]

Bud after seeing your pictures I would say the boot slips over the outside edge and has a metal expansion ring to hold it in place. If you look at Gary's 14p calipers they are the same. I remember rebuilding them and using the metal ring to hold the boot in place. I know they look like there should be an additional lip for the ring to snag but I know some don't have that.

Gary thanks for all your pictures as they help jog the dust around in between my ears.

[oldelanman]

Hi Bud,
The lack of a groove does make it difficult to keep the dust cover in place while you fit the retaining clip. I found that the piston needs to be pushed right into the bore and the area where the dust cover sits and the cover itself need to be dry, any grease or brake fluid and it will just pop off as you try to ease the clip into place. Here's what it looks like once you get it on.......this is a 14LF caliper but the principle is the same as yours

[Bud English]

So, just like Lotus, Girling was prone to making changes mid stream with little or no documentation.

Thanks for the quick replies everyone. I had time to pull my eBay auction where I was selling the extra rebuild kit that I'm going to need.

Gary- You have a PM...

[Bud English]

Again, Thanks for all your help. This place is great!!

Got 'em done...

Without the groove for the metal clips it's still no easy chore. Helpful hint for anyone with the same calipers....

a couple drops of super glue on the face of the caliper below the lands will help hold the boot, stretched in place, while you install the metal ring. Without the glue, it's like herding cats. I almost resorted to using the dremmel tool to make a groove.

[garyeanderson]

Looks great Bud, Test drive soon I hope!

Gary

[Bud English]

Gary,
You have to remember that most of my posts are in the Mods section. There are still a few (that's local slang for "hundreds") of things to sort out.

...but I'm close to the rolling chassis stage and I'm shooting for the first week in August for that test drive.

[s3swiss]

The clean and dab of superglue worked for me as well. Neighbours were learning plenty new swear words up to that point.