Brake line lengths (hose) front vs rear

[h20hamelan]

Same goes for OEM wheels, vs aftermarket. OEM need pass the tests, no so for aftermarket,
I understand most elan’s are low miles each year, like Rohan stated, tough to see through Stainless braided.

Nice thing about braided, is you can replace the nylon. I dont think its as ductile or flex as synthetic rubber whatever the compounds used.

[pharriso]

Did anyone (apart from Stresscraxx with a IIRC) bother to answer the OP's question:

"So which length goes on the front/ rear?"

[2cams70]

This is interesting. Also gives some information on how to properly fit braided hoses if you wish to:

https://www.jag-lovers.org/xj-s/book/SSBrakeHoses.html

[oldelanman]

Did anyone (apart from Stresscraxx with a IIRC) bother to answer the OP's question:

"So which length goes on the front/ rear?"

Longest on the rear, discussed here .......
viewtopic.php?uid=4893&f=42&t=26506&start=0

[Andy8421]

This is interesting. Also gives some information on how to properly fit braided hoses if you wish to:

https://www.jag-lovers.org/xj-s/book/SSBrakeHoses.html

At the risk of extending this conversation further, I am not sure how much faith I would put in an article on an owners club forum written by an unknown author - particularly since he appears to be talking through his hat.

[2cams70]

At the risk of extending this conversation further, I am not sure how much faith I would put in an article on an owners club forum written by an unknown author - particularly since he appears to be talking through his hat.

I think to settle this debate a road use approved vehicle needs to be identified that has stainless steel braided brake hoses fitted as original equipment by the manufacturer. I am not aware of one. Maybe something particularly exotic has such hoses. If someone knows of one I'd be interested.

I do however agree with you that not everything on an owners club forum can be taken as gospel!

[h20hamelan]

My 73 450SLC came with braided, but not nylon below. Synthetic Rubber.
So to pass inspection, same same. There is little or no stock left, so people are starting to wonder what to do.

[pharriso]

I think to settle this debate a road use approved vehicle needs to be identified that has stainless steel braided brake hoses fitted as original equipment by the manufacturer. I am not aware of one. Maybe something particularly exotic has such hoses. If someone knows of one I'd be interested.

Close to home - try the Lotus Evora.

Braided hoses have the advantage of swelling less under pressure leading to a firmer peddle, but are more expensive to procure & the underlying hose cannot be inspected.

[h20hamelan]

As one can buy the synthetic rubber, and make a die. Finding a source for the ends. No one has piped up on the 107 chats, but they must be out there.
Further, since Covid, this lack of supply which has gotten much worse. Will only exacerbate the issue, it would be nice if a company recognized the need for crimp-able flex/hose fittings.

[USA64]

Some more info albeit not on braided lines. Checking condition of line is relevant here though and original source is given.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190124122 ... /Fluid.htm

[Elan45]

Thank you "Stress Cracks" and "Old Elan Man" for your assistance in determining which end my hoses belong.

Roger

[The Veg]

BMW motorcycles since the '90s have had braided brake lines. Riders of older bikes who've retro-fitted them haven't reported much any problems and the aftermarket suppliers haven't gone out of business.

There are pluses and minuses to both types and I don't think it's as much a debate of absolute good/bad as much as of individual expectations.

As far as the OEM item always being the best, most well-thought-out choice, we all know how amazingly good Lotus were at choosing materials and components back 50-60 years ago!

[2cams70]

Motorcycles do not have to comply to the same regulatory standards as other vehicle classes and the durability requirements are not as important. Insofar as OEM being the best it usually is the case for a vehicle operated under the conditions for which it was originally designed. Lotus may not have cared much about durability but that case is hardly representative!
BMW don’t use braided hoses on their cars as far as I’m aware.

[The Veg]

Motorcycles [snip] durability requirements are not as important.

Why not? Only two brakes instead of four to stop the vehicle, and the hoses (as well as everything else in the system) are much more exposed to the elements, usually must accommodate a greater amount of flex due to longer suspension travel than in a car, and in modern applications, are part of anti-lock and traction-control systems (my bike has both). And failed brakes are a greater danger to the operator of a motorcycle than to the operator of a car. Seems to me that they'd need to be MORE durable than those in cars.

[2cams70]

There's two sets of design standards that come into play when a vehicle is designed:

1. The government mandated minimum design standards - generally speaking these mainly concern aspects to do with safety and effects on societal well being.

2. The manufacturer's own internal design standards - These sometimes exceed the standards in 1) above and also include aspects of design that aren't government mandated. Durability is a big one but there's others as well.

In the case of 1). Regulations are administered based on the vehicle category. A motorcycle has different performance criteria and standards it must meet compared to a car, commercial vehicle or bus for example. What is legal in one category may be illegal in another (from a new vehicle design perspective).

Insofar as durability and motorcycles is concerned I suspect the criteria aren't as strict. Bikes do not accumulate the same kilometers over their lifespan as other types of vehicles nor do they encounter the same broad variety of roads that other vehicles do.

If it's the case that regulations allow it and OEM's are equipping bikes with braided brake hoses it's probably something more to do with the "bling" factor than anything else. The target market does have a penchant for shiny metal and black rubber doesn't quite cut the mustard. In a car you can't see brake hoses but on a bike they are fully visible. This doesn't mean they are functionally any better than plain rubber hoses however.

I'm not saying I know the exact answer in this case but whenever I see something that's been around a while and the OEMs have never used it in significant volume even on high end vehicles red flags pop up and I begin to question why. Don't say the reason is cost because I know that usually the reason isn't cost. Having said that though if the performance and durability is same no manufacturer in their right mind would pay $5 when something equally as good in performance and durability can be had for $1. That situation might change if at some point there's a dollar factor associated with being a fashion statement when transparent rubber tyres are invented!