Lotus Elan

Re: CV driveshaft kit conversion-Installation complete

PostPost by: Rob1n » Mon Feb 26, 2024 10:45 pm

On rotoflex donuts it only takes one failure then you will replace them as soon as possible. Luckily my failure happened just as I was moving off so not too much damage other than a large hole in the boot floor!
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PostPost by: mjbeanie » Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:05 am

Hello Leslie,

Just wanted to show you that your suggestions had an impact. Grade 8 bolts now installed with appropriate washers and locknuts. Gosh those washers were difficult to place on inboard side of the wishbone bush, not much clearance. Took some coaxing and a little help from a pry bar. (Also replacing the suspect differential torque rod bushings, parts are on the way...)Thanks again!
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PostPost by: SimonH » Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:39 am

I guess that bolt on the RHS isn't done up yet? You want a minimum of 3 threads through the nyloc section otherwise it wouldn't be considered secure.
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PostPost by: sng » Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:35 am

I am in the process of rebuilding the rear suspension etc. of my car and am a little confused about the number of washers required to join the outer wishbone to the bearing housing.

I can see mjbeanie has fitted 6 per side. When I look at the picture in the manual no washers are present. I also looked at the parts catalogue published on the rdent.com web site and to me it only specifies 1 washer per bolt fixing ( 2 per side). If this is the case I can understand why it was such as struggle to fit ones between the wishbone and the bearing housing. As my car does not have the original rear suspension I have no reference point and wonder what was fitted at the factory ?

Simon

P.S. I am fitting Sue Miller CV Joints, my car was fitted with new doughnuts just before it went into hibernation for 18 years. During this static period one of the doughnuts had become delaminated!
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PostPost by: alanr » Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:45 am

mjbeanie wrote:Hello Leslie,

Just wanted to show you that your suggestions had an impact. Grade 8 bolts now installed with appropriate washers and locknuts. Gosh those washers were difficult to place on inboard side of the wishbone bush, not much clearance. Took some coaxing and a little help from a pry bar. (Also replacing the suspect differential torque rod bushings, parts are on the way...)Thanks again!


Something is wrong. Not enough thread showing after the nut on the front bolt in the pic. Amount of thread showing after the nut should be equal on both bolts.
I suspect that you have the bolts in the wrong way around or not got the correct length bolts. Note:The bolts should not be equal in length. One bolt should be shorter than the other so assuming you do have the correct length bolts you will need to swap them over to get them correct.

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PostPost by: types26/36 » Wed Feb 28, 2024 12:06 pm

sng wrote: When I look at the picture in the manual no washers are present. I also looked at the parts catalogue published on the rdent.com web site and to me it only specifies 1 washer per bolt fixing ( 2 per side).?


The washers are shown in the early manual and seem to be referred to in the later manual although not shown.
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later manual.JPG and
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PostPost by: smo17003 » Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:11 pm

Also clearance between the bolt heads and the wheel rim is minimal, hence the special bolts. viewtopic.php?t=51032&p=371390

If you stick with those bolts you might have to grind a "flat" to clear the rim.
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PostPost by: types26/36 » Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:03 pm

Here are the bolt lengths (thin head)
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PostPost by: mjbeanie » Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:07 pm

I agree my assembly is incorrect due to the amount of threads exposed. The 3-3/4" bolt was hard to find in grade 8.
My choices were 3-1/2" and 4".

The washer issue remains a mystery. I noted as well the parts manual specifies only two washers per rear bearing housing, although not illustrated. It was indeed a difficult assembly step to squeeze in the two additional washers between the wishbone and bearing assembly.

I also believe the assembly diagram referenced by type26/36 as "early manual" is referencing the assembly for the baby Elan, not the PLUS 2. Hence the assemblies may be configured differently. I am sticking with the plus 2 manual.

Lastly the bolts heads DO rub on the inside wheel rim. My grade 8 bolt upgrade may have to go. Honestly I may just go back to the original bolts while still trying to sort the washers needed.
'71 Lotus Elan Plus 2S130 (Type 50/0179)
'70 Opel GT
'67 Sunbeam Alpine
'88 Porsche 924 S
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PostPost by: alanr » Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:40 pm

SJSportscars have the correct bolts...1xLong and 1xShort per side showing in stock at £2.96+vat each.
https://www.sjsportscars.com/

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PostPost by: mjbeanie » Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:00 pm

Ok, I should retitle this thread Installation "Almost" complete. Anyway its back to the original OEM bolts. There are a total of 6 washers present on the bearing housing at this time. I may press on with this configuration, as it will probably last a very long time. (Not as many threads evident due to stack build up with washers thickness.)
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PostPost by: 512BB » Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:34 pm

So, for clarity, there should be 4 washers per ali housing. No washers under the head of the bolts, then a washer between the 2 bushes and the housing and a washer under each nylock.

As I wrote earlier, you would never have a steel bush that moves, rub on something aluminium. See picture of what happens if you do, but I have seen so many like this over the years, assembled by people who have not got a clue.

Re bolts, many different manufacturers over the years. Unfortunately, the ones being sold today are not custom made for the job, they are bolts that have had their heads turned down, and then plated, whereas back in the day, people like GKN produced the correct length bolt and it had their name on it. The heads on the bolts today have had the heads turned down to far, and are to thin.

You can just file down the heads Mark, and just paint over them with something. Make sure you use plenty of anti seize on the bolts and do not tighten the suspension up until the car is on the ground and you have rolled it backward and forward a few times, and bounced it up and down.

There is no difference in the set up between an Elan and a +2 They both use exactly the same Issue 16 or 18 housing and damper, just the A frame being a different length.

Leslie
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P1010001(95).JPG and
P1010001(94).JPG and
P1010002(90).JPG and
P1010003(89).JPG and
P1010004(88).JPG and
P1010006(81).JPG and
P1010008(69).JPG and
Last edited by 512BB on Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPost by: GLB » Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:24 pm

Consider AN grade bolts. Available in 1/8 length increments with correct unthreaded shank length. Not as brittle as grade 8 but tougher. Carrol Smiths book "Prepare to Win" gives an excellent discussion of fasteners. Dave Bean has them through there Bon Aero division in the US or Wicks Aircraft supply or Aircraft Spruce and Specialty (no affiliation to any of these companies). I have a background in homebuilt aircraft which may be why I love Lotus cars, as close as you can get. They are no more expensive than other quality hardware and lots of nut options. Gary
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PostPost by: 512BB » Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:06 am

Just to add to my previous posts, as I see it, the reasons there are no washers under the heads of the bolts in that application are threefold. 1, there is no reason to have one there, you have 2 steel surfaces acting on each other, nothing to see there then. 2, if you do place a washer under the head of the bolt, there is a good chance that it will fowl the wheel rim, and 3, with no washer under the bolt head, you can fit a socket right up to wishbone, as it passes over the steel shoulder of the bush. Otherwise, good luck getting a spanner on the miniscule heads of the turned down bolts that I picture. They are the 2 inside bolts of the 4 in pictures 2 & 3. Clear? :D

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PostPost by: mjbeanie » Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:27 am

Thanks very much Leslie for the detailed explanation! I have reconfigured the assembly once again. I used the original bolts on the bearing housing making sure there were washers on either side of the housing. No washers present under the bolt head. Clearance is good and there is no more rubbing on rim at full droop. The Spyder wishbones were very tight on tolerances. Installing thin washers was painful. I did stick with the grade 8 bolts on the inner portion of the wishbones to the chassis. Tomorrow I will do the differential torque rods and get ready to lower the car on the suspension for final tightening. And I'll post a final photo, in case I screwed up something.
I am anxious to see how it behaves with the new CV setup. I appreciate all your tips and suggestions!! Cheers!
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'70 Opel GT
'67 Sunbeam Alpine
'88 Porsche 924 S
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