Lotus Elan

Plus 2 S differential story and question

PostPost by: TomMull » Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:59 pm

The inserts and wire would have added weight.
T
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PostPost by: gus » Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:50 pm

>>>Hi Tom don't use Loctite on threads in Alloy or next time the screw are removed the threads wil be stripped.
No ptoblems fitting Wire Thread Inserts in blind holes. They will be stronger than threads tapped direct in Alloy.
Alan<<<

Sorry this is not at all true.
I use red loctite on aluminum castings every day, it has no negative affects.
Its positive attributes are that it coats the threads like never seeze, so while it will hold the bolts, it will also let go when the appropriate torque value is reached since there will be no corrosion

Perhaps if you use 277 on a number 6 screw and don't use heat to remove
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Fri Feb 23, 2024 2:45 pm

My example is:
When i did some work on the last 1973 +2S130/4 i unscrewed the Pivot for the Timing Chain Tensioner and it tore the Thread out. The previous owner had used Loctite on the thread which is not needed.
So i agree to differ if that's ok.
I ended up having to fit a Wire Thread Insert in the Cylinder Head.
Alan
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PostPost by: TomMull » Fri Feb 23, 2024 3:49 pm

Re Loctite:I'm sure there is some truth in all of the above but here is "from the horse's mouth".
https://next.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/articles/how-to-remove-red-threadlocker.html
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PostPost by: Craven » Fri Feb 23, 2024 4:16 pm

Use Loctite 243
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PostPost by: gus » Fri Feb 23, 2024 4:59 pm

I do not know what product was used on that tensioner, what the condition of the thread was when it was last installed, nor what level of torque was required to remove or strip it.

There is no reason to believe that the use of loctite in aluminum is problematic. I have installed something to the effect of 25,000 M6 and M5 screws with red loctite in the last 20 years and have no evidence that it has ever been problematic.

It seems to me more likely that in your situation someone cross threaded that pivot and used loctite as a bodge to hold it in, leaving you to inadvertently destroy it upon removal. These cars are all now 50+ years old and have usually had many DPOs
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:57 pm

gus wrote:I do not know what product was used on that tensioner, what the condition of the thread was when it was last installed, nor what level of torque was required to remove or strip it.

There is no reason to believe that the use of loctite in aluminum is problematic. I have installed something to the effect of 25,000 M6 and M5 screws with red loctite in the last 20 years and have no evidence that it has ever been problematic.

It seems to me more likely that in your situation someone cross threaded that pivot and used loctite as a bodge to hold it in, leaving you to inadvertently destroy it upon removal. These cars are all now 50+ years old and have usually had many DPOs

I was the4th owner of the +2S130 and as far as i know it was well maintained. But when i removed the Pivot Bolt i saw for me was traces of Loctite. I was not happy. I worked for 20 years as QC Engineer Aerospace Industry and am sure it was Loctite that had been used.
I think the person who used it had heard horror stories of Pivot Bolts coming loose.
Strange because the thread is well adapted being a special Fine Thread. BSPF.
It was not so easy to locate this size Helicoil Wire Thread Insert.
Alan
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PostPost by: TonyA » Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:01 pm

There is a guy called Ian J who has a YouTube site covering his Lotus Elan; the last three episodes cover the diff, bearings half shaft removal/ refurbishment and the tools he has made to take the various components apart.. Worth watching..

If I know how, I would have provided a link but it should be easy to find on YouTube..

Tony
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PostPost by: Barney » Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:53 pm

Elan S2 DHC (26-4399),
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PostPost by: TonyA » Tue Feb 27, 2024 8:41 pm

That's the guy..! Thx
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PostPost by: pharriso » Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:42 pm

In the Diff rebuild video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c32nGbmPct8) he replaces the input seal, but doesn't replace the crush tube, or take care tightening the input nut to the same angular position as advised everywhere else. Is this going to be OK?
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PostPost by: TomMull » Mon Mar 04, 2024 6:28 pm

If I'm not mistaken, he was working on an earlier differential. Those had shims to set the preload. It was then possible to torque back to the original spec if the shims were left in place. Some people have done the same, or counted the turns on the crush type but I don't think that's recommended.

I also read somewhere, sorry don't remember the source, that since bearings are manufactured to such close tolerances that you can change them using the original shims. The idea was that the shims compensated for irregularities in the machining of the castings not variations in the bearings. Take that for what it's worth.

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PostPost by: 512BB » Mon Mar 04, 2024 8:19 pm

The U tuber IanJ should be watched for entertainment purposes ONLY, nothing factual or to be copied, and from behind your chaise longe.

He removes diff bearings with the casing stone cold. Finds the bearings to be notchy and then refits them. He does that because he does not have a press, so cannot remove the old bearings, and hopes they will be okay. Likewise in another video, bashes the water pump bearing into the housing using a club hammer. No sealant on the flange splines or pinion nut, so that will leak like the proverbial. No care as to torque of pinion nut, etc etc.

I admire people for having a go, sometimes, but to bodge it and then put it on U Tube...........come on.

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