Lotus Elan

Electric fuel pump

PostPost by: jasper2347 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:00 pm

Hi all, hope you are staying sane. What is the opinion on type and position when fitting an electric fuel pump or pumps to a +2 for a spot of sprinting? We have always used Facet pumps before, but have had a couple of failures on other cars. Suspect there may be a few very good clones coming in from you know where, difficult to spot though. Any suggestions received with thanks. Rob :D
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PostPost by: elans3 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:57 pm

There are lots of dirt cheap Facet clones around on Ebay. I've had a couple of the genuine Facet pumps fail over the past 4 years on my Alfa. The newest Facets pump at the same rate whatever the conditions, and don't regulate (ie go slower when the demand dwindles) like the older ones used to, which could be a factor. Imperative that you use a pressure regulator with them.
There's been a Bendix one on Ebay at the moment (Virtually identical to the Facets), and is NOS, so should self - regulate. They were fitted as OE on early SWB Porsche 911's.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pierburg-Ben ... true&rt=nc
I would buy one of them in front of a modern Facet .

I've reverted to my old (at least 30 yrs old) Mitsuba's, which I've had since my rallying days and have never failed.
Once again you have to be careful as there are repro's of them knocking about too.
Managed to buy an NOS Mitsuba only last week to keep as a spare.
I believe they're the best of the best, they used to be used on Works Escorts.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mitsuba-elec ... 2749.l2649
Current :- Elan S3 DHC SE S/S 1968,
1963 Alfa Giulia Ti Super Rep.
Previous :-
Elan S3 DHC SE SS 1968,
Elan S3 DHC S/E 1966
Elan S3 FHC Pre-Airflow 1966
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PostPost by: jasper2347 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:46 pm

Thanks for that. Very little choice these days as everything has gone injection. I have a nearly new Facet which I ran on my old Porsche. It worked fine on there, so I think I will use that and mount a spare beside it. I have a box full of genuine used eighties Facet pumps which were only taken off to replace with new when we were running the race car. These new pumps which look like Facet items on evilbay and the like at under twenty quid are not worth looking at. Will keep my eyes open for the other pump type. Cheers, Rob
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:53 am

Try a "Huco" fuel pump.
There is a choice of two different models.
No Pressure Regulator needed.
Supplier "Eurocarb".
Alan
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PostPost by: elans3 » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:41 pm

The Huco pumps are ok, but the "low pressure one pumps at 2.1 psi, which IMO is not quite enough for a pair of 40 DCOEs at WOT. The other one pumps at 4.3psi which is just a mite too much , and again, in my opinion, would need a pressure regulator. DCOE's like to run at 3 to 3.5psi, and yes they will run at 4 +, but it hammers the needle valve into a depression on the brass float where the needle valve rests.
Current :- Elan S3 DHC SE S/S 1968,
1963 Alfa Giulia Ti Super Rep.
Previous :-
Elan S3 DHC SE SS 1968,
Elan S3 DHC S/E 1966
Elan S3 FHC Pre-Airflow 1966
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:25 pm

Please don't forget the Flow Rate.
I also own a classic TVR 1976 3000M and a 1978 TVR 3000S. Both Weber Carbs and thirsty V6 Engines no problem.
One has the lower presssure Huco and the other the higher pressure Huco.
Both cars have the Huco inside the Boot.
Both run perfect no problem.
For me it's a no brainer and i drive both cars no problems.
Alan
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PostPost by: jasper2347 » Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:57 pm

Hi all, had a quick look at the HUCO pumps on the net. Look very similar to the shape of the old SU pumps. As we are on with a MGB rally car as well and the SU is dead, may see if the owner wants to try one. There seems to be two types, a push and a pull. The PFP02 133010, would be ideal for the Elan as it is a pull type and could be mounted in the engine bay to save piping and wiring in to the boot. They say 2.2psi., so should be OK without regulator. Would fit a one way valve to stop any drainback. Could always upgrade to the other one if we find starvation problems with the Dellortos. We will always find a home for the unused one anyway. As the MG has its pump at the back we would need a standard push type for that. Probably a different part number? Thanks for the information. Will let you know how we go on with both cars. Rob :D
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:32 pm

The Flow Rate for 133010 is 130 litres and on my V6 Ford Essex Engines it's ok no problem. Or higher pressure with regulator 133000.
Alan
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PostPost by: jasper2347 » Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:42 pm

Thanks Alan. Just had an email back from the manufacturers confirming the PFP02 will be fine as a front mounted pull pump for the Elan. They have however recommended the PFP03 for the MG to give a bit more push from the rear of the car for the MG. As your V6 runs OK, can't see any problem with the MG. As long as everybody doesn't close down this week with any new lockdown, we will be getting both pumps and having a go. Rob :D
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:48 pm

Great Rob,
Pleased to help. I put a cleanable glass filter between Tank and Pump.
Easy to clean in 5 minutes and monitor
Alan
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PostPost by: jasper2347 » Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:46 pm

Good idea, don't see why they won't go for the extra few quid. We would normally fit the little in-line glass filter from Sytec. Think we'll fit them and argue about it later. Have just ordered both pumps for the jobs. Just have to find a good location for the Lotus one amongst the other stuff like ignition modules, coils and catch tanks. We'll figure it out. Might put some pics up in case anyone else is interested in the Elan job. cheers, Rob
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PostPost by: mbell » Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:05 pm

I have a different pump but have it fitted by the pedal box. Fuel line comes up from tunnel into fillet and then pump, I a have 90 degree elbow that connects line to the rear carb and then front carb.
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IMG_20210104_190053_compress10.jpg and
Fuel pump
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:58 am

002.JPG and

On both of the "Huco" Pumps i have used rubber(cotten reel) mounting so no vibration.
This is on my TVRs.
Alan
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PostPost by: nmauduit » Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:27 am

elans3 wrote:The Huco pumps are ok, but the "low pressure one pumps at 2.1 psi, which IMO is not quite enough for a pair of 40 DCOEs at WOT. The other one pumps at 4.3psi which is just a mite too much , and again, in my opinion, would need a pressure regulator. DCOE's like to run at 3 to 3.5psi, and yes they will run at 4 +, but it hammers the needle valve into a depression on the brass float where the needle valve rests.


My take on low pressure electrical fuel pump is that if there is some positive pressure left at WOT, flow is enough for the given build, as there should not be any residual pressure in the bowl which operates at atmospheric pressure: to rest assured with my fuel pump flow, I've modified a fuel intake banjo bolt so that fuel pressure can be checked with a small gauge while the engine is running at max operating rev (last I checked there was about 1psi left from idle 2 +/- 0.5):

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PostPost by: alan.barker » Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:53 am

Hi Nmauduit,
i must admit that's the correct way to check it out.
I have been a bit lazy and never checked it like you.
cheers
Alan
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