+2S JPS values

[fillpoke]

Hi, just wondering if a genuine JPS +2 is worth a premium over the 'ordinary' car? Also what would you say the current value of a JPS is - poor paintwork, decent Spyder chassis, runs ok but cuts out after a while due to fuel starvation (dirt in tank?), half decent dash, good seats, console etc.? Thanks for your help, Dave

[JonB]

The problem is the paintwork. If it's poor you need to budget 5-10K to have it put right.

No doubt you are referring to this one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233107673631

I see a lot of work there: paint, windscreen surround, dashboard (it's really not half decent with all those cracks), probably suspension, unknown fuel issues, oil leaks ("usual" = need to take the cylinder head off!), interior looks tired (see that door handle?), bumpers need rechroming (?300 each).

It's already bid at 10k and I certainly wouldn't pay any more. But I have been wrong about values before - I'm only going by my own experiences. Says 75k miles - if so, nice! but has the engine been rebuilt and if so, by whom? Does it burn oil (smoke)? Does the gearbox or diff leak?

If you're going to see it, take someone who knows the car, if you can.

[fillpoke]

Thanks JonB. Yes that's the car. I really don't know what to do. Paint, dashboard, engine etc. I can do myself, so just the cost of the materials there. I'm just worried about paying too much money for the car incase, if at sometime in the future I decide to sell, I can't get most of my money back.

[JonB]

I may be telling you to how to suck eggs, but don't underestimate the cost of parts and materials.

You'd find it hard to get one for less than 10K to be fair, but the trick is to get one with the fewest number of problems. And yes, I do like the JPS cars very much, but not enough to pay over the odds.

Incidentally, he says that it is original, but I thought the JPS cars had cloth seat panels. That one looks to have vinyl panels... anyone else care to comment?

[fillpoke]

I agree with you - the cost of materials can be huge. Many years ago I restored an Elan S4 using a new Spyder spaceframe chassis and numerous other parts including rebuilding the engine. In all it cost me ?15000. When I eventually wanted a change and decided to sell it all I could get was ?8000 (wish you could still get them for that). That's why I'm uncertain about this +2. Don't want to loose all that much money again!

[vincereynard]

As Jon rightly says there could be a LOT of work there. Guestimate and then double!

I'm also fairly sure that the seat panels should be a form of cloth. (Pretty nasty to be honest, they seem to stretch and go very floppy.) The gear lever surround would suggest it is also only a 4 speed.

Go and see it and have a ride. Driving a few is the only way.

[jono]

Some early JPS cars had vinyl seats and 4 speeds. All had Sundym glass.

[JonB]

Some early JPS cars had vinyl seats and 4 speeds. All had Sundym glass.

I was going to reiterate the long stated point about Lotus and what is considered "original" - you just never know as they had a tendency to use what was available at the time. Also, if it left the factory with cloth panels, it seems highly unlikely that anyone would got to the expense of replacing the seats or covers for vinyl. I was suspicious of the gear gator, too. If it is a four speed, that could reduce its value to some buyers (on the other hand, the four speed gearbox is said to have a better shift, but as Vince demonstrated, you can improve the five speed box gearchange).

If you are concerned about restoration cost vs. resale value, I recommend buying one in better condition, even if it costs more. Sounds mercenary, but that way the previous owner(s) have the loss, not you.

[Rich135]

That car looks like it needs a lot of jobs doing on it, and that is only from the pictures (which are poor anyway), so you can bet there will be a lot more you can't see. Look at the dash, bits of wood missing, all dial surrounds corroded.

With the body in that condition, you won't get back any money you invest in the rest of it, as a buyer will always know that they need to spend ?5-10k on the body, so will deduct that off of the price they pay you (worth up to ?20k if very nice, less ?10k = ?10k).

It's probably at it's max price at the moment, but I wouldn't go any higher I am afraid.

Also, JPS, maybe some would pay a premium but I wouldn't. I would much rather find a better base project.

All the best,

Rich

[EPC 394J]

As others have said.

Purely in terms of ?investment?, or getting your money back. That car looks to be right at the very top of it?s value/condition curve, in the current market.

IF you particularly want a JPS, and aren?t too worried about how much time, effort and money it will eat up, then, it?s probably not a bad basis for a (possibly?) fairly original restoration. But to do that well, won?t be cheap..

If you want value for your hard earned money, then pay twice that ?10k and enjoy your motoring in a well sorted, fairly original example. You?re unlikely to lose much money that way.

My opinion is worth exactly what you payed for it!

[fillpoke]

I'd just like to thank you all for the help you've given me. In the light of all your good advice, and my own 'gut' feeling, I've decided to give this JPS a miss. I think buying this 'cheap' car could turn out to be very expensive in the end. As you all advise, better pay more for a good condition car, so that's probably what I'll do. So the search goes on. Once again many thanks for your invaluable help. Dave

[AussieJohn]

A friend is restoring an Elan and is doing most of the work himself, he has passed ?30k without the cost of the car and not yet finished.

[fillpoke]

Wow - looks like I made the right call then!

[JimE]

As Jon rightly says there could be a LOT of work there. Guestimate and then double!

I'm also fairly sure that the seat panels should be a form of cloth. (Pretty nasty to be honest, they seem to stretch and go very floppy.) The gear lever surround would suggest it is also only a 4 speed.

Go and see it and have a ride. Driving a few is the only way.

By the time of the JPS + 2, the oatmeal ambla seats had cloth inserts. The Europa got them too. You can see from one of the pictures of the JPS car that the rear seats have the cloth inserts. The front seats look fresher that the rest of the interior so I suggest they have been recovered. The cloth seats are a better option and are more comfortable if they are in good condition and you can keep them that way. Lotus Cars retrimmed mine but like you say they go floppy eventually. Jim

[Peter +2]

I was a Lotus virgin back in the 80's.

My JPS +2 had oatmeal vinyl seats front and back (no cloth inserts).

my-first-plus-2.jpg (79.03 KiB) Viewed 1518 times

I do not have a picture of the interior, but i do remember.

Peter