Lotus Elan

Buying advice and originality questions

PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Mon May 23, 2016 3:58 pm

theelanman wrote:ah...but that press photo is a bit strange is it not?.....
it has the very early door handles but the later chrome windscreen surround.....

:mrgreen:

lol

The very early cars had the Capri metal windscreen surround, but as Ford had destroyed the tooling for these bits shortly before the Plus 2 hit the road, the guys at Lotus had to scavenge all the Ford dealers to find as many sets as possible to put on the first 100 cars or so. Then when the 'S' was launched, they somehow found a load more....but they soon ran out!
Mark
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PostPost by: Sea Ranch » Mon May 23, 2016 6:02 pm

In my opinion, the B & W photo of the so-called Ron Hickman car clearly shows the factory stock mold of the front wheel arch and it's not perfectly round and following the tire curve. It is slightly square-ish and the center/top section of the arch tilts down toward the front of the car. This is factory and designed in.

Since the OP is still asking for opinions, I will reiterate that I personally would not choose a "bitsa" car (which this red car clearly is) unless I was out of options and the price was extremely attractive. It will always be a bitsa car and will not be attractive come sale time (just as it's clearly not attractive now).

Countless times on this forum you can read people saying it's better to buy the best car you can, rather than save money on the purchase cost only to put it back in with repairs, which repairs ultimately may never allow you to reach the same place/quality as an original or properly restored car.

OP will have to assess his own values/preferences. :mrgreen:

Regards,

Randy
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PostPost by: Parptoot » Mon May 23, 2016 7:56 pm

Sea Ranch wrote:Since the OP is still asking for opinions, I will reiterate that I personally would not choose a "bitsa" car (which this red car clearly is) unless I was out of options and the price was extremely attractive. It will always be a bitsa car and will not be attractive come sale time (just as it's clearly not attractive now).


It is in a way a bitsa car but aren't we only looking at a later dash and a possibly dicky front end repair?
There are other smaller issues but nothing that can't be rectified, much like the main talking points.
That's IF you wanted to, or feel as though you needed too.
Am I right in thinking it'd only be an unattractive car to the number matchers?

Sea Ranch wrote:Countless times on this forum you can read people saying it's better to buy the best car you can, rather than save money on the purchase cost only to put it back in with repairs, which repairs ultimately may never allow you to reach the same place/quality as an original or properly restored car.
OP will have to assess his own values/preferences.


I've bought a relatively large number of cars over the years and I've heard this said previously too. "Buy the best car you can". I understand that and know why it's said but the times I HAVE spent the budget on a full price 'sorted' car, it's soon transpired that this so called sorted car also needs a few good things doing to it to bring it up to standard.

On the other side, I've bought and returned to prime a number of other cars that were bought relatively cheaply but with these you're going in with eyes open and prepared to dive in with the wallet open and waving.
granted, you may end up going over the original budget but that's all part of the fun. (I don't want that quoted back to me when I get well and truly bitten on the backside :D )

Assuming that someone actually fitted that front end on in the first place, then I'm assuming it could be redone properly by someone who knows what they're doing.
Cost? Not a clue.
Then the dash? I reckon I'd leave it as is. It's not as it should be granted but I'd go back to that 99% thing, Most people see an old Lotus, nothing else.

* will he ever stop typing*

Nearly done :D
My current classic gets admiring looks from most who see it, the 99%. The only time I hear air sucked through teeth and negative comments is at meets where the knitted jumper brigade mention the non standard suspension and bespoke interior in the wrong colour.
I'm fine with that and come sale time I'd like to think the general condition and my obvious care and attention would enable the car to be sold on, if it got to that.

I think what I'm after in general is a bit of hand holding and the occasional "It'll be alright Mike" :D
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PostPost by: jimj » Mon May 23, 2016 9:47 pm

Parptoot, I`ve been reading this thread as it`s progressed. All along thinking, yes, yes.....but...if it`s cheap enough, which seems to be your thinking too. I`ve not seen it and don`t know why it hasn`t sold, maybe there`s other issues. I also have a feeling that when it didn`t sell at auction the first time, the dealer bought it, maybe cheaply, after the auction. I could be mistaken.
Changing the front end (clip in dude parlance) would be hugely expensive and I doubt worth doing but if the dealer still has it, we don`t live too far away. Not sure about holding hands but I`m happy to come with you to view, inspect, and impart my scant knowledge, which won`t take long.
Jim
P.S. What if the horn doesn`t work?
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PostPost by: EPC 394J » Mon May 23, 2016 10:33 pm

I think I've seen manufacturer's promo pics that don't look dissimilar to this car (as far as the wheel arch is concerned?) maybe it's the angle or something?

Take a look at the car 'in the flesh', I'd say. If you like it, buy it!

It looks pretty enough.

At the right price! :roll:
Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life?

Plus 2S

BLL 315H in white.
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PostPost by: theelanman » Tue May 24, 2016 10:24 am

Elanintheforest wrote:
theelanman wrote:ah...but that press photo is a bit strange is it not?.....
it has the very early door handles but the later chrome windscreen surround.....

:mrgreen:

lol

The very early cars had the Capri metal windscreen surround, but as Ford had destroyed the tooling for these bits shortly before the Plus 2 hit the road, the guys at Lotus had to scavenge all the Ford dealers to find as many sets as possible to put on the first 100 cars or so. Then when the 'S' was launched, they somehow found a load more....but they soon ran out!
Mark

the very early cars also had the double curvature windscreen which was also the Capri....but I understand that these were in single figure production as they only managed to get a dozen or so before Ford ditched the tooling
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Tue May 24, 2016 10:51 am

I've had 4 early cars, going up to chassis 115, and they all had the metal surrounds, as per the 'S'.
The changeover was at 169, when the windscreen also grew a little thicker due to having a thicker laminate 'interlayer'.

Not heard of a double curvature screen before! Does that mean that the windscreen aperture was also different?

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PostPost by: dgym » Tue May 24, 2016 11:12 am

don't the tail lights also look crooked? especially the right one?
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Tue May 24, 2016 11:17 am

Parptoot wrote:
AdrianSi wrote:Is this the red one? Was discussed the other week.... Looks like a 'bitsa' car.


That's the one I think. The 'Bitsa' term was used within the thread.
Later dash, later, possibly badly added, front end with light recesses, colour change and ummm, what else was it?



This seems a decent, genuine car. Private owner so "generally " less bull stink than dealers .
Could be worth a look. A few bits need sorting but nothing too expensive.

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C709640

I went to a well known dealer in Kent on Saturday to view a

" Fantastic example ...This is one of the best 5 Speed big valve Plus Twos we have ever driven."

Tatty, filthy underneath, paint bubbles, with a gearchange worse than the previous yellow nose scraper
I've virtually given up with dealers!

Vince
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PostPost by: Parptoot » Tue May 24, 2016 11:19 am

dgym wrote:don't the tail lights also look crooked? especially the right one?


Oohh, back to the advert to check....

So it does, proper wonkey but it seems to follow the body line beneath.
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PostPost by: theelanman » Tue May 24, 2016 11:38 am

Elanintheforest wrote:I've had 4 early cars, going up to chassis 115, and they all had the metal surrounds, as per the 'S'.
The changeover was at 169, when the windscreen also grew a little thicker due to having a thicker laminate 'interlayer'.

Not heard of a double curvature screen before! Does that mean that the windscreen aperture was also different?

Mark


yes they changed the screen.....Ron Hickman had a gadget that he brought to every Lotus event which he'd had made to test the curvature of the screen.......
if he'd have found a car with one he'd pretty much have given you whatever you wanted for the car........ :shock:

the screen was curved side to side but also curved to the top 6~10"........
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PostPost by: Wickey » Tue May 24, 2016 6:09 pm

Vince......have you looked at the white plus 2 with the purple roof as it may help to at least get a base line from your experience of viewings. I am still hoping if I can muster up another 5K that the guy has not sold it as I have looked at about 10 +2's so far and it seems that little extra layout is probably well worth it especially for me as I have no 'spanner' experience or even spanners. I see a yellow +2 on eBay for 34k................is this the highest price one has yet been advertised at? am I wasting my time hoping I could get a decent one for 15k :oops:

Randy,,
You say the moulded (molded if that is NA term as we seem to use both spellings) was not introduced till the 130 spec but I have seen these type on a couple of the basic +2s model so will that all have been accident/repair damaged ones.......
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PostPost by: Parptoot » Tue May 24, 2016 6:48 pm

jimj wrote:Parptoot, I`ve been reading this thread as it`s progressed. All along thinking, yes, yes.....but...if it`s cheap enough, which seems to be your thinking too. I`ve not seen it and don`t know why it hasn`t sold, maybe there`s other issues. I also have a feeling that when it didn`t sell at auction the first time, the dealer bought it, maybe cheaply, after the auction. I could be mistaken.
Changing the front end (clip in dude parlance) would be hugely expensive and I doubt worth doing but if the dealer still has it, we don`t live too far away. Not sure about holding hands but I`m happy to come with you to view, inspect, and impart my scant knowledge, which won`t take long.
Jim
P.S. What if the horn doesn`t work?


Hello Jim,
I know the owner has had this car for about 4-5 years so both the recent auctions it failed to sell so he may be willing to take a bit of a cheeky offer (subject to a viewing). I have nothing to lose in that really.

I've got a bit more digging to do on the owner/dealer and the collection of +2s he has and why this one and none of the others are for sale, hmmm.

I would dearly love some knowledgeable back up when viewing. I'm a certified car nut but I do tend to let my mouth run off with the money so a hand on the back of my collar might help to reign me in.
May I request a second pair of eyes if the time comes to view?

I'm a good couple of hours away so it's not just a case of popping round hence all the questions here and worse still for the owner.
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PostPost by: jimj » Tue May 24, 2016 9:48 pm

I`ve checked, it`s just under an hour from here so no problem, though no +2 is listed. I`ll be happy to meet you there at a mutually convenient time, we live in Foolow, sort of between Chesterfield in Stockport, where will you be coming from?
Jim
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PostPost by: jimj » Tue May 24, 2016 9:50 pm

That`s " between Chesterfield AND Stockport."
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