Lotus Elan

+2 prices, will they soon be over the ?20k mark???

PostPost by: Jason1 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:47 am

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 367wt_1139

Hi folks

I have been watching this car on Ebay for a while now. It looks really nice and says fully restored (but not when this was) but is it really worth over ?16k? I think the one Paul Matty sold Chris Evans was around that price, are we massively under pricing our cars? Practical Classics mag (PC) has the +2 valued between ?5k (Condition 2) and ?10k (Condition 1). I would say a restored car should be more than the PC valuation as they only value to Condition 1 (Not concours, but well presented and with no major faults).

I think this this is great news for all of us as more people will restore these cars and not break them for the engine and it makes the ?5k respray more likely. :D Start stock-piling +2 cars in every inch of the garage before they rocket over the ?20k mark. :lol:

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PostPost by: tynemead » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:23 am

I previously sold the Elan in question and having sold over 10 +2 Elans over the past 2 years I must say this car was more than exceptional. This car was restored over 9 years, and was finished I think in 2003, I sold it in 2009 and it had covered just 2500 dry miles since the rebuild but looked like it had just been finished. The restoration was featured in Classics magazine, the finish on this car was the best I have ever seen on a +2 and I think if you are looking for an exceptional Elan this is your car and well worth the money as you could not restore one to this condition for ?20k, it also had full service history from new. The car is nothing to do with me now but I just thought I would comment.

The Chris evens car was up for ?24k at PM and the car above last sold at Uk SPorts Cars Or was advertised at ?18995
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PostPost by: 1964 S1 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:44 pm

IMHO
I've always thought the Elan and Elan +2 were undervalued, especially the +2, I can not figure out why.
All oil leak, Lucas, and fragility jokes aside, the Elans are terrific cars. Not many were built and the Elan today is still considered one of the Best handling cars. Of all time !
I think a fairly large price increase is due, soon. The Lotus name being re-associated with Grand Prix Racing and in Indycar will "certainly?" add to our cars value.

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PostPost by: stugilmour » Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:59 pm

1964 S1 wrote:IMHO
I've always thought the Elan and Elan +2 were undervalued, especially the +2, I can not figure out why.
All oil leak, Lucas, and fragility jokes aside, the Elans are terrific cars. Not many were built and the Elan today is still considered one of the Best handling cars. Of all time !
I think a fairly large price increase is due, soon. The Lotus name being re-associated with Grand Prix Racing and in Indycar will "certainly?" add to our cars value.

Eric


Agree with Eric's view from this side of the pond.

A price difference between the Plus 2 and Elan seems to have existed for quite some time, but may be narrowing a bit on a percentage basis as both models rise in value? There appears to be fewer Plus 2's available over here this year, although maybe the summer months will bring some more forward. Still seems to be a steady supply in GB though. Part of the difference may be drivable or 'restored' Plus 2's over here often seem to have some strange non-stock cosmetic elements in the interior finish (unlike the nice example Jason has posted), perhaps because they were not seen as that valuable when re-done. The Elans may maintain appeal as the mod's seem to focus more on performance improvement, track day specials.etc.

I think the Plus 2 has been under appreciated over the years due to the performance difference between the two models. However, with 20 year old vintage cars easily matching Elan acceleration performance, perhaps the market cares less about the Plus 2 power/weight deficit and will recognize the extra convenience and usability it offers as a touring classic? Style preference is of course personal, but the Plus 2 was an easier sell for me than the Elan or Europa with SWMBO. :)

At the Vancouver ABFM this year the dinner speaker discussed the ten most under appreciated British cars. The Plus 2 and the Esprit made the list, with the Lo-Cort, Europa & Seven mentioned during questioning as being fully valued already and perhaps tugging up the Plus 2 pricing. The next day the speaker looked over Randy's and my car at the show, and wanted to buy either one. His take was honest or complete Plus 2's are not that common, and they should be up significantly over the next two years. He had purchased an Esprit within the last year for himself, and I didn't sense he was considering a Plus 2 purely as an investment, just a very desirable classic.
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PostPost by: Jason1 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:54 pm

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1968-LOTUS-ELAN-2 ... 792wt_1139

Ok now have a look at this early car. Engine rebuilt by QED 5000 miles ago and new chassis. It looks to be a great car for that money (?12,750) and most parts replaced last year so are still new; but why has it not sold?

I do not understand why bidders are bidding over ?16k for the other car an not this one? Maybe it's the location? But how much would you pay for a local pickup?

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PostPost by: LotusElan+217 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:29 pm

The Elan +2 has always been my favourite Lotus since I first purchased one at the age of 21 and had been for many years previously, I currently have 2 although one is for sale and the other is awaiting restoration, out of the last 34 years I have only been without a Elan +2 for a period of 2 years whilst I sampled the delights of an Esprit S2, my second favourite Lotus.

Notice I state "Elan +2" although the devout Elan fraternity will insist it is not an Elan but merely a lowly +2 for those that cannot afford an Elan, well sorry to disagree with them but it clearly states on a plaque on the side of my car "Elan +2" and what was good enough for Chapman is certainly good enough for me.

Let me make it clear that I love the baby Elan and have always done so, it is just that I PREFER the Elan +2, sacrilege I know but there it is, and I know a number of like minded people who completely concur.

I could afford an Elan but when the alternative is a car that I prefer the looks of and is anything up to 50% cheaper then that there is simply no contest in my book. I spent ?35,000 on a racing Exige when I could have gone for a racing Elan for similar money, I don't regret my decision.

I am also very happy at the price differential between the Elan and +2 (ok I have relented and will abbreviate it to merely a +2), it means that I could in the past afford to get a well sorted +2 for the price of a basket case Elan, again no contest.

It seems that +2 prices have risen in recent years, and I still maintain that it is purely down to the valuation of the engine, it is not uncommon to see big valves go for ?4K and small valves for ?2.5K, that alone makes the +2 prices of old seem unsustainable, I could have picked up several running +2s with an MOT for ?3K just a few years ago, and I have seen a few on Ebay recently sub ?4K, but probably needing ?10K to get them presentable.

I have never understood the low valuation of the +2, when you consider that only recently a similar age and condition MGB would have commanded a price in excess of the +2, the +2 being far superior in every aspect and considerably less abundant in numbers, then it makes no sense whatsoever.

I was more than happy over a period of 34 years to keep the delights of a +2 secret, happy in the knowledge that it didn't owe me a great deal of money and was far more valuable to me than the sum of its parts, but sadly it appears others are catching on and it is getting the attention it deserves, no matter how much that pains me.

A similar situation is with the Elite/Eclat models, I have had both, currently have a 1980 Eclat, they are stupidly cheap in comparison to other inferior classics and they are not as fragile as people seem to think, but things will slowly change, it just has to follow a natural progression.
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PostPost by: Carlos A » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:46 am

With the economy as it is, I do not think so. Moreover, I hope prices keep were they are: in the US between $4000 for a project and around $22000 for a restored car. That make the +2 a great car for the buck. Just my opinion! Carlos
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PostPost by: RichC » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:26 am

to my mind , once you start talking about " values rocketing " you attract the wrong type of person .i.e. folk who are more interested in making easy money .
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PostPost by: terryp » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:34 am

Jason1 wrote:http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1968-LOTUS-ELAN-2-/300562931828?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item45faf26074#ht_792wt_1139

Ok now have a look at this early car. Engine rebuilt by QED 5000 miles ago and new chassis. It looks to be a great car for that money (?12,750) and most parts replaced last year so are still new; but why has it not sold?

I do not understand why bidders are bidding over ?16k for the other car an not this one? Maybe it's the location? But how much would you pay for a local pickup?

Jason


Jason
Do you think it may be because early cars are a bit of an acquired taste to people who either own a +2 or have previously owed a +2 , (hence my systematic conversion of my late car to an early car look :wink:)
Like you I would go for the early car but new +2 owners would look at the cars ...Big Valve ....Silver roof .....S130 .....5 Speed (Maxi gearbox :shock: :!: ).....big fat seats .......Fog Lamps .......etc etc and see a better car perhaps :?:

Bidding is up soon on the late car

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PostPost by: slimromeo » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:10 am

I think Chris Evans has also kind of contributed to the recent +2 price rise, everybody knows hes a huge car enthusiast and has many twitter followers checking out his car purchases, when he bought his +2 it put the car into the social network eye, now the secrets out and lots of people want one.
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PostPost by: Jason1 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:27 pm

It is just very confusing why some people will bid on one car and not another. For me I am curious as to how much to insure my car for; how much would it cost to replace my car with a like car? The prices are hugely different from car to car. I figure my car is worth ?9k but right now I could not replace it for that money as most are around the ?10k to ?12k mark. But if you wait until winter the prices may fall again??

Have a look at these ones on Ebay at the moment; I do not think many are better than mine. But why are the prices so high?
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PostPost by: RichC » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:32 pm

I guess the money u are prepared to pay is correlated with how 'honest' a car feels and how well any vehicle has been treated over its long life . matching numbers & originality will always win over less original cars which may explain the discrepancies above .
just because a vehicle has been resprayed / refurbished doesn't mean it's worth more than one that hasn't... sometimes it costs more time and money to redo a refurbed car than one that hasn't had the 'love'


Someone claiming on insurance is likely to be wanting to purchase quickly ... I am thinking you are right and that the shortage of good ones is going to mean that unless the valuers keep a close eye on the market it is possible that our vehicles may become underinsured. I for one would be happy for the valuation process to move with the times and if it is required to be more rigorous , so much the better. I also would be happy for the prices not to rise too much!
There are relatively few of these up for sale & it's likely to get more difficult to replace like for like if the unspeakable should happen
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PostPost by: Kerryt333 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:50 pm

I would class my car as an honest car which has had 4 years of love & attention & work , including engine rebuild, CV driveshafts, cassette type water pump, suspension bushes, clutch, carpets,headlining etc.
I've just had it on a well known auction site starting at ?6000 with a target of ?9000, & with 98 watchers I never even got a bid on it,& 1 cheeky person offered ?5000, which when you consider that a properly rebuilt twin cam sells for around ?3000 upwards, does this make sense?
Either my car isn't as good as I think or prices are too high or people haven't got the money at the moment.
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PostPost by: leedsj » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:10 pm

Completely agree that these are massively under-valued. My +2 is THE car that I've wanted since I drove one when I was 20, and if I were a rich man (which I'm not) I would buy one for 50-60k e.g. instead of an E-Type or similar.

Here's why I think the current price is WRONG:
- They LOOK amazing: really, one of the - if not THE - nicest looking cars this side of a Miura. Mine gets SO much more attention than in any other car I've owned. Other classics are cool, but +2's are triple cool.
- They handle incredibly - and they are SO FUN to drive. Really, just how many cars give you a smile every time you go out?
- They're fast. Sure, not compared to a modern Lotus, but they DESTROY other Classics - MGs, Jags, even 911s - especially the 130...
- They aren't that expensive to run. Yes, more than say a Focus, but an equivalent priced Focus depreciates more in a year than the Elan will cost you to fix. What's more, they are no where near other "performance" cars in terms of price of parts - mostly just Ford/Austin bits... ;)

Here's why the price will CHANGE:
- All Classic values are rising as investors see them as a safe haven, especially for prestige marques
- Lotus as a marque is on the rise upwards, especially with current plans afoot at Hethel. There are substantially inferior cars from other marques that command sometimes 10x the value. As Lotus becomes once again respected alongside Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini so it's heritage models will also been seen with a Halo
- V4s will generally become more accepted in sports car circles once Formula 1 makes the move to 4 cylinders. Aston also have plans to introduce 4 pots on the back of this
- Their general amazingness will undoubtably win through

Why are they so cheap? IT'S BECAUSE WE ALL SELL THEM BASED ON THE C&SC BACK PRICINGS! Honestly, house prices only went up because everyone started asking more for their houses. If everyone on this forum asked for an extra ?2k on their cars the prices WOULD rise!!!

There's no reason why a classic Lotus should not command the sort of values other prestigue marques do
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PostPost by: slimromeo » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:37 pm

leedsj wrote:Completely agree that these are massively under-valued. My +2 is THE car that I've wanted since I drove one when I was 20, and if I were a rich man (which I'm not) I would buy one for 50-60k e.g. instead of an E-Type or similar.

Here's why I think the current price is WRONG:
- They LOOK amazing: really, one of the - if not THE - nicest looking cars this side of a Miura. Mine gets SO much more attention than in any other car I've owned. Other classics are cool, but +2's are triple cool.
- They handle incredibly - and they are SO FUN to drive. Really, just how many cars give you a smile every time you go out?
- They're fast. Sure, not compared to a modern Lotus, but they DESTROY other Classics - MGs, Jags, even 911s - especially the 130...
- They aren't that expensive to run. Yes, more than say a Focus, but an equivalent priced Focus depreciates more in a year than the Elan will cost you to fix. What's more, they are no where near other "performance" cars in terms of price of parts - mostly just Ford/Austin bits... ;)

Here's why the price will CHANGE:
- All Classic values are rising as investors see them as a safe haven, especially for prestige marques
- Lotus as a marque is on the rise upwards, especially with current plans afoot at Hethel. There are substantially inferior cars from other marques that command sometimes 10x the value. As Lotus becomes once again respected alongside Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini so it's heritage models will also been seen with a Halo
- V4s will generally become more accepted in sports car circles once Formula 1 makes the move to 4 cylinders. Aston also have plans to introduce 4 pots on the back of this
- Their general amazingness will undoubtably win through

Why are they so cheap? IT'S BECAUSE WE ALL SELL THEM BASED ON THE C&SC BACK PRICINGS! Honestly, house prices only went up because everyone started asking more for their houses. If everyone on this forum asked for an extra ?2k on their cars the prices WOULD rise!!!

There's no reason why a classic Lotus should not command the sort of values other prestigue marques do



well said!
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