Is this a new high for a Plus 2?

[Elanintheforest]

It's not just a restored Plus 2 though Dusty...it's a very well known low mileage one owner car that was pretty much mint BEFORE being 'restored'. As close to a new Plus 2 as you could get....

Mark

[dusty]

I don't doubt that it is a very nice car, but even the best wouldn't have made half that money 5 years ago, just an example of how much values have gone up in the last years. What's driving them up? (I know supply and demand is the obvious answer, but what is behind the increased demand?)

[Spyder fan]

Dusty,
The cheeky and controversial answer to the increased value of +2's could be due to the number of very nicely restored and and mostly converted zetec examples built by Spyder that have helped raise the profile of the car in the last few years. People I meet who are non Lotus enthusiasts at car parks, petrol stations, garden shows, pub car parks you name it are absolutely stunned by the shape and presence of my +2 and find it hard to believe that its a design dating from 1965, my car is absoluteley standard to look at to the untrained eye and I think the fact that so many more of them are driving around now than a few years ago is at last doing the trick with values. It was always an elegant car, but it's finally being appreciated.

?27k is less than the price of a new Elise 111R and this +2 at Matty's is a very very nice car, probably as near to perfection as you could get.... would I buy it if I was looking for a really nice +2? ..... probably not, but I would go view and use it to judge against other cars zetec converted or not.

Regards

[Elanintheforest]

I think you're absolutely right, Alan. Folks are also realising that a factory Spyder or a professional restoration of a standard car is ?30k, so to find a mint original for that sort of money has to be a very rare opportunity.

If you break it down into 20 years of ownership, that's ?1500 a year to buy the car (the same cost as smoking 20 fags a day), assuming it's worthless at the end, which it won't be. That's cheap!

I do have lots of ways of justifying costs!!!!

Mark

[dusty]

Valid comments, but why the Elan +2, the same reasoning (restoration costs, classic looks) could be said of a lot of classics of the era but not many have seen the same dramatic increase.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not compaining or suggesting that they shouldn't be worth these prices I'm just curious as to what happened in the last few years to create this inflation.

Is it really all down to the model getting noticed (magazine articles etc)

[Spyder fan]

Desirability has to be a factor; a late 1960's or 1970's Reliant Scimitar would cost similar money to restore properly, but I can't remember the last time one of those sold for more than 10k, they are mostly in the bargain basement under ?1000 bracket.

Mk1 Ford escorts (not just the fast ones) are a crazy price compared with vauxhall vivas, hillman imps etc that would all cost the same to restore.

Magazine articles have definitely raised the profile, Octane have done many articles on the Spyder conversion including a really good 2 page spread last year and the classics monthly car created enormous interest and sales for the magazine over it's build period.

Lets all hope that our cars stay within a sensible band of affordability and desirability. Rising prices are helpful in that some will feel more confident in investing money in restoration or proper maintenance rather than decide the cost of maintaining/restoring is not worth the value of the car, when prices are too low we get +2's being broken for their donor parts for other cars, conversely if prices get too high we could lose the entry level enthusiasts who can afford 7 - 10k for a reasonable car and be prepared to spend a bit of money each year before getting a windfall or successfully nagging their wives to let them do it up properly!

[davidj]

Hi,

7 years ago I paid ?3.8K for a +2 with a new chassis, new QED engine (which was running really really badly!), current MOT but a dreadful body and interior (but did have a set of new, badly fitted, carpets!). The car has now been fully restored but at the time I thought I had brought a right basket case.

Maybe I made a good buy afterall?

David

[Spyder fan]

Hi David,
If you could buy the same car today that you bought 7 years ago for ?3.8k we would all accuse you of stealing it! Only the real basket cases needing new everything are less than 4k now.

Regards

[richgilb]

Mark, Alan stated that Zetec conversions by Spyder bring the prices up, not standard car Spyder restorations. When he stops being controversial he might acknowledge that it is both types of restoration.....anyway, allow me to also be controversial; perhaps it is the cannibalization of the originals by the zetecs that make the standard +2 more rare, therefore more desirable and, consequently, more expensive? Are we up to around 9 standard cars for 1 Zetec?

[Elanintheforest]

I think it's both, 'cos when Joe Public see a gleaming and mint plus 2 running about reliably many will want one. When they see a faded one with cracks all over and the bonnet up at the side of the road they won't!

Standards seem to be rising all the time, and a lot of folks are now putting their hands in their pockets to get the paint and trim done properly. A Mk II Jag is a prime example. You can still buy a 'barn find' heap for ?1000, and there are still plenty left to find. A full professional restoration will cost ?80k - ?100k, and the finished car will be worth, well, a bit less than that!

But when a Mk II Jag subsequently sells for ?60k - ?80k, it spurs other owners on to get some work done on their cars, and so eventually the value of all the Mk II Jags goes up on average because they are generally in better condition than they used to be. Then the supply of project cars start to dry up, as they have for E Types and Lotus Cortinas (I hesitate to use those words with you and Alan reading!) and the price of project cars starts to go up alarmingly. Add the price of an expensive project start point to an expensive professional restoration and you end up with rising prices, so long as demand is maintained.

The supply of 2 seat Elan projects has slowed down considerably in the last 2 years, and it's hard to find a heap now for under ?7k. It looks like the same thing is starting to happen to the Plus 2 as well.

Mark

[richgilb]

anybody want to buy mine?

[Spyder fan]

Mark,
I have been looking for an Elan heap for under 5k for ages, controversially (Rich!) I want to ruin it by selling all the bits I don't want and try to shoehorn a Honda S2000 lump and 6 speeder into it, something to get folks talking again, if only for them to mutter something like "that t*at Thomas should buy an Evora and leave the old stuff alone". 5 years ago I could have taken my pick of quite a few, but as you say the low prices have all but disappeared.

Please don't mention crates of tinworm named after a classy resort in Italy especially when they are to be associated with a Lotus badge, it might raise my blood pressure and start me barking at the moon again

[Spyder fan]

anybody want to buy mine?

Rich,
You just finished it and now you want to sell!!!! I think you are trying to take advantage of market conditions or have realised it isn't as good as an original car?

Regards

[Jason1]

If you could buy the same car today that you bought 7 years ago for ?3.8k we would all accuse you of stealing it! Only the real basket cases needing new everything are less than 4k now.

There is one in the back (P38) of the Club Lotus mag ?3,500 in Surrey.

Jason

[Spyder fan]

Jason,
There's a big list of old stuff that goes with the car but no mention of a new chassis or QED engine? ?3500 for a basket case as described is about right...