Lotus Elan

Is this a new high for a Plus 2?

PostPost by: garyeanderson » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:13 pm

The Ford manufactured alloy block (late 70's early 80's) may have had this feature, but any of the new blocks that you can buy today on the market (at least the ones I have seen) are dry sump only. ALL 87mm plus bore blocks will have an oil take off from the oil pump and an external line to the main oil gallery on the left hand side of the block as there is no cross feed. 85.65 mm is about the limit with a cross feed in between cylinders 2 and 3. This is a drilling of approximately 5/16 inch. At 87 mm you will almost certainly break through and junk an Iron block unless you offset the cylinders bores outboard on cylinders 2 and 3. Yes I have seen 86.5 mm in a AX block but this is the exception and not the rule. If we do the math, we start with a fixed number for the bore centers of 3.78 inch, in metric thats 96.012 mm, so going to 87 mm leaves 9.012 mm wall between the bores with a siamese block. If you have a 5/16 inch (7.9375mm) cross over oil feed you will be pretty thin, .537 mm on each side of the cross over passage, how lucky do you feel. yes we can offset bore cylinders 2 and 3 outboard a bit but again "Do you feel lucky".
Going any larger than 87 mm in an Alloy twin cam will put the fire ring very close to the block to head water passages. You may be lucky to find a good head that has these passages in good condition and be able to get a 90 mm bore. Anything can be done by a determined engine builder but if you are paying someone to do the work your pockets ought to be so deep you can touch the floor. My 87 mm KAM block is still waiting for my pockets to stretch down to my knees so I can bend over and take some money out and you know whats going to happen next. There is probably enough material in the KAM block by the oil pump to drill a pickup tube hole. On the Steve Jennings block there isn't enough for the pickup tube (see photo), I havn't seen any of the SAS blocks, I may get some pictures on Wednesday of a original Ford block if I stop to talk to my friend Bill as he has my KAM block and a Jennings block plus the Ford alloy block.

p.s. - I don't believe that Ford sold any road going RS Escorts with more than a 1800cc engines, I wasn't there so I don't know. I've been wrong before and I'll be again, so there is no gospel in what I say...
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jennings alloy block mains1.jpg and
twin cam bore centers.jpg and
firering1.jpg and
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:38 am

My engine is definitely a period piece...none of this modern stuff that you can't put oil into! Here are a couple of Ford publicity shots of the time (late 1972), showing the 'new' ally block BD engine. This went into the last of the RS 1600 Mk 1 Escorts (only 5 or so cars), and then into the road going Rs 1800 Mk 2 Escort (which was a very rare car...less than 200 made from memory). Most of these car were used for serious rally work, and taken out to just under 2 litres. Quite a few more engines were made than cars (they didn't last too long putting out 275bhp and being thrashed constantly for days on end) and it's one of these 'spare' engines that's found it's way into my grubby hands.

It had been raced and had a deep score in one bore after something let go. As they were Nicosol coated it couldn't be re-bored, hence new liners to the appropriate size.

Should be fun. Still not sure what to put it in yet, but an S4 with duff engine sits in the barn looking nervous.

Mark
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1972-975-RS1600AluminiumBlock-1small.jpg and
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PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:56 pm

Elanintheforest wrote:Here are a couple of Ford publicity shots of the time (late 1972), showing the 'new' ally block BD engine.


And a wet sump it is! Note the external oil feed running under the sump to the oil gallery on the exhaust side. This is the cure for having no more room for the internal cross drilling as noted by Gary.
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:51 pm

Hi Mark
Looking at your other photos from the previous discussion, it seems we have been there before in the topic below, your photos show the oil pickup ports.

elan-for-sale-f2/alloy-711m-block-t17907-15.html

Gary
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PostPost by: Robbie693 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:39 pm

Whilst in the local library this morning (otherwise known as WHSmiths) I noticed one of the classic car monthlies had a write up on the Matty car. Apparently it's done 200 miles since it was rebuilt.

Think it was Classic Cars
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PostPost by: Melvinelan » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:13 pm

In the U.S. I've almost never seen a Plus 2 over $15,000, or under ?10,000. Prices maybe should be lower, as the cars are more difficult to live with here, but still. It would almost be worth exporting the things if it were easier to find them, and the continentals should be very happy with the left hand drive cars.

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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:45 pm

Here's a new high http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT
?142.50 for a scale model!

I have an SMTS model kit of a +2 which I am putting the finishing touches to, I bought it for ?40. It now is finished in Royal Blue with Tan leather and I am making the wheel centres to look like the minilites that I have fitted to my 'real' car.

It's a real shame that there are no main stream models of the +2, you can pick up an elan model for a few pounds and a Europa is no problem either, so why is the +2 so badly catered for?
Kindest regards

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PostPost by: 1964 S1 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:35 am

Build numbers and pedigree. The plus two is a step child.
Not many real cars and fewer models produced.

The Europa models are cheap because not many people buy them?

I still believe one of the all time sleepers in the real car market is the Lotus Elan +2.

sshhhhhhh... Eric
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PostPost by: bandjie » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:10 pm

Surely it's down to us as +2 owners to try and achieve the highest price possible for our cars. It's supply and demand, if the demand is there which I believe it is then we should all stick together and hold out for a price that truly reflects the rareity and quality of the marque :)
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PostPost by: 1964 S1 » Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:27 am

Hi Bandjie, are you selling your +2?
Eric
ps; Did you mount your overtaking mirror?
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:30 am

bandjie wrote:Surely it's down to us as +2 owners to try and achieve the highest price possible for our cars. It's supply and demand, if the demand is there which I believe it is then we should all stick together and hold out for a price that truly reflects the rareity and quality of the marque :)



Hear hear Bandjie...

Alex. 8)
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PostPost by: jono » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:53 am

Well, it looks that Matty's shifted that car :shock:
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PostPost by: dusty » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:33 pm

Yep, and it didn't take long either. :shock:
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PostPost by: jono » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:56 pm

...I now don't feel quite so bad in spending what will be close to the Matty price on my Plus 2 resto :lol:

I do think these are seriously underated and stunning looking cars for the money and it's time values reflected this IMHO
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PostPost by: dusty » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:46 pm

PM is pushing the envelope again, this time we're up to ?28K for a restored late +2

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C137875?pt=pf

Glad I bought mine a few years ago!
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