Lotus Elan

Another +2 Ruined....

PostPost by: richgilb » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:14 am

Mark[/quote]

Mark
They always seem to look very high in the workshop on buildup, they need about a month to settle down when fully built (mine did anyway) and then you have to decide whether to put the ride height visually correct and accept grounding out when you carry a passenger or keep it a bit too high (visually) so that you save knackering the bottom of the exhaust manifold on speed humps.

Can I conclude that those people who set their Zetec engined +2 ride height to a visually correct level have no friends?

Here's mine, either I have friends or I am optimistic.... or maybe there are fierce speed humps in Tunbridge Wells.

ride-height.jpg
[/quote]


Mark

This zetec has been on the road for five years but without the cosmetics being sorted. I could only afford to do this in stages, i.e. get the car, the zetec engine, chassis and rolling gear first, then do the paint and next year the interior.

And unfortunately it does still ride high. Mine does settle but in a really ugly way. The back settles but the front does not. I have had it sorted once at Spyder and the outcome was that the rear was raised again. But now the back has dropped within a year and the front is pointing upwards once again. I shall be going back this November to Spyder for an MOT and service and we agreed that we could sort this by changing the springs which are 5 years old now,lowering the shocks by an inch, then stiffen them. And also get slightly higher profile tyres when these tyres are worn out.

There does seem to be some variation in the zetec ride height. You and Niall (with the green one) seem to be lucky, but he has recently admitted that he is going to raise his a bit, due to scraping I think.

If you learn that Spyder did anything different with yours on set up, then let me know.

Cheers,
Rich
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PostPost by: richgilb » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:24 am

D.J.Pelly wrote:
Elanintheforest wrote:
I'm not too sure if the Zetec is taller than the Twincam, the drive centre line remains the same & regardless the engine even fits easily into an S4.
The Mondeo sump will hang down lower that the front cross member which is a big no no in my book, the sump being die cast, won't bend if it hits a speed bump.
Modification highly recommended!

Cheers
John


But the manifold on mine rests an inch lower than the sump, so at least I will have two things to repair when it touches down!
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:45 am

richgilb wrote:
D.J.Pelly wrote:
Elanintheforest wrote:
I'm not too sure if the Zetec is taller than the Twincam, the drive centre line remains the same & regardless the engine even fits easily into an S4.
The Mondeo sump will hang down lower that the front cross member which is a big no no in my book, the sump being die cast, won't bend if it hits a speed bump.
Modification highly recommended!

Cheers
John


But the manifold on mine rests an inch lower than the sump, so at least I will have two things to repair when it touches down!


Rich,

I think the manifold problem is unavoidable, you will no doubt have one made of fat juicy pipes that have to clear lots of obstructions like the Anti-roll bar & in the case of the original g/box the Slave cylinder.
I actuall lengthened the Anti-roll bar hangers to make room for the exhaust system, so that's lower but it's bendy!
(Probably great for Carrier landings :lol: )
I had to take an expensive second bite on my exhaust system in that area.
But going back to the sump; a sudden loss of engine oil due to a broken sump is a scary thought; the repair of such is very much a secondary concern.
The fabricated base & wings of my reduced depth modified Sump are made from 4mm Aluminium sheet, so that's now quite bendy as well.

Cheers
John
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:53 pm

The Mondeo sump is ditched in favour of a Escort sump to allow more clearance

ZTCSUMP01 ESCORT ENG SUMP S/HAND SPYDER ?50.00


extract from Spyder zetec price list http://www.spydercars.co.uk/pg2_zetec_price_list.htm
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:11 pm

Spyder fan wrote:The Mondeo sump is ditched in favour of a Escort sump to allow more clearance

ZTCSUMP01 ESCORT ENG SUMP S/HAND SPYDER ?50.00


extract from Spyder zetec price list http://www.spydercars.co.uk/pg2_zetec_price_list.htm


Phew Alan,

that's one hell of a list, it's confirmed my decision not to go through all of my bills & count up the cost.
I feel quite faint just after reading that lot.
Should put off a lot of people who may be considering going Zetec & more ammo for the purists.
Time to take cover I think :wink:
I was aware of the Escort sump option, simply forgot it. However my own conversion cost me just a crate of Bavarian beer for the welding.
Just one question, do you know why they change the crankshaft front pulley?

Cheers
John
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:37 pm

John,

I'm really not sure why they change the pulley, must be the normal Spyder reason of trying to use a standard off the shelf component wherever possible, this sometimes means changing a minor part to use a more major lower cost item.

That price list would be my best argument as to why the Spyder Zetec conversions have a reputation for reliability, you are basically buying a new +2 if you go the whole hog. The question has been done to death here before but I wonder how many 'traditional' +2's get properly rebuilt to the same standard, I would guess not many, but those that do will cost about the same as a Zetec engined +2 and will enjoy that 'New Car' reliability for as long as they are properly maintained.

I still take a deep breath whenever I read my personal build spreadsheet and I was lucky enough to not need ?6000 of SMS paint as some nice person in a Focus was good enough to write themselves off against my nearside rear quarter about a year before I got converted.....
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PostPost by: richgilb » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:17 am

Spyder fan wrote:The Mondeo sump is ditched in favour of a Escort sump to allow more clearance

ZTCSUMP01 ESCORT ENG SUMP S/HAND SPYDER ?50.00


extract from Spyder zetec price list http://www.spydercars.co.uk/pg2_zetec_price_list.htm


Does this mean that the the bottom of the sump is higher than the bottom of the chassis, i.e protected?
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:21 am

Rich,

Not really, but there's a stonking great exhaust manifold that lives beneath that will get thumped first (and often does on the speed humps round here). The Escort sump is to assist with clearance for the front crossmember/vacuum tank.

Regards
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:01 am

Whilst on the subject here are some pictures of the Mondeo Oil Pan that I modified to fit in my Elan.
It involved cutting off the Sump to a height that would be above the Chassis cross member (Vacuum Tank) when installed.
To make up for lost volume baffled "Wings" were included at both sides of the Pan.
The Baffles are positioned so that they are able to support the weight of the whole engine when placed on the ground.
You may see that there is a lot of fabrication & welding work involved. Fabrication made from 4mm Aluminium sheet.
The Oil pick up pipe height also had to be shortened to suit.
When I eventually filled the Engine with the Mondeo specified 4,5 Litres of Oil, the oil matched the Maximum mark on the original Dipstick.
How lucky can you get? :)
Oh & it works fine, no measurable Oil surge in Bends, Roundabouts etc.
A pleasantly surprising result considering the loss of Sump depth.
Apologies if the picture quality is not that good, they are scans from colour Photos.

Cheers
John
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Oil Pan1.jpg and
Oil Pan2.jpg and
Oil Pan3.jpg and
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PostPost by: richgilb » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:48 am

Spyder fan wrote:Rich,

Not really, but there's a stonking great exhaust manifold that lives beneath that will get thumped first (and often does on the speed humps round here). The Escort sump is to assist with clearance for the front crossmember/vacuum tank.

Regards


Don't get what you mean. To help with clearenace so the vacuum tank doesn't hit the ground? Can't be, surely??!!!
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PostPost by: richgilb » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:50 am

D.J.Pelly wrote:Whilst on the subject here are some pictures of the Mondeo Oil Pan that I modified to fit in my Elan.
It involved cutting off the Sump to a height that would be above the Chassis cross member (Vacuum Tank) when installed.
To make up for lost volume baffled "Wings" were included at both sides of the Pan.
The Baffles are positioned so that they are able to support the weight of the whole engine when placed on the ground.
You may see that there is a lot of fabrication & welding work involved. Fabrication made from 4mm Aluminium sheet.
The Oil pick up pipe height also had to be shortened to suit.
When I eventually filled the Engine with the Mondeo specified 4,5 Litres of Oil, the oil matched the Maximum mark on the original Dipstick.
How lucky can you get? :)
Oh & it works fine, no measurable Oil surge in Bends, Roundabouts etc.
A pleasantly surprising result considering the loss of Sump depth.
Apologies if the picture quality is not that good, they are scans from colour Photos.

Cheers
John



No fears that it might leak?
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:08 am

Oh the cheek of that Man :roll:
It's "Made in Germany"
The Welding was done by a real Pro (Cost me a whole Crate of good Bavarian Beer) & after that the whole Oil Pan was sent to a specialist Company for Resin impregnation & then pressure tested.
The discoloration that can be seen in my Photos is caused by the impregnation process.

Errrm no not in the slightest bit worried :)

Cheers
John
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:30 am

richgilb wrote:
Spyder fan wrote:Rich,

Not really, but there's a stonking great exhaust manifold that lives beneath that will get thumped first (and often does on the speed humps round here). The Escort sump is to assist with clearance for the front crossmember/vacuum tank.

Regards


Don't get what you mean. To help with clearenace so the vacuum tank doesn't hit the ground? Can't be, surely??!!!


Rich,
The standard sump won't fit into the chassis without hitting the front cross member/vacuum tank.....
escort-sump.jpg and
British engineering.jpg and


Now stop acting blonde and pay attention.

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PostPost by: richgilb » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:40 am

Wow, My mind is beginning to feel like a parachute. I have a crate of Trente Trois...do you reckon they'd do one for me?
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:12 pm

A very professional looking job, John....and very German.

This is a big wing sump from a Mk 1 Escort Mexico / RS 1600. Made at the Ford factory in Averley in the early 70s....yet it looks like I made it! Good old British workmanship.

Mark
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Bigwing sump 003.jpg and
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