Original at any effort?

[grahammay2]

What is the general consensus's should original items be preserved at (almost) any expense & effort. In particular front seats, one of mine the seat tubing has split & bent, poorly repaired some time ago & again split & bent. I think It could be better if I invested in new classis style seats. What do you think?

[trw99]

Graham

It's your car right now, so do with it what you will.

The upgrade v originality argument will always rumble along. It would appear that prices are starting to favour the original car (unless it's a still-raced 26R of course!).

It is interesting to see the prices reached by some of the Jaguar XK, Mk II and E Type as well as Aston Martin upgraded cars, but I suspect they get used as regular drivers. And clearly there were many more of those cars produced than there were Elans. It would follow therefore that original Elans would continue to appreciate, due to the scarcity of them.

Tim

[Elanintheforest]

I agree with Tim, and with the Plus 2, there is no reason why you can't keep it original if you want. Many have been broken over the past few years, and most parts are available on eBay quite cheaply if you're prepared to wait. I wouldn't bother repairing your seat...just get another.

The upgrade path is often strewn with half-baked hybrids that the owners don't have the skill / time / money to complete properly. They can be superb, but they are usually the cars that have been re-engineered top to bottom over many years, and requiring 1000s of hours and a lot of money to sort properly....it's the reason that a factory built Spyder Plus 2 is ?30k plus.

There is a bit of a backlash in the E Type world (the other love of my life!) where folks have been spending big money 'upgrading' with the 5 speed gearbox, power steering, A/C, trick suspension etc. If properly restored as well, they end up with a car that's cost them well over ?100k, performs better than the original, but somehow has lost it's original character. Trouble is, as old cars approach the performance and refinement of a modern equvalent, it's hard not to compare them, and they can never be compared favorably. A modern XK, which can be had for less than ?10k, will beat the pants off the best and most upgraded E Type, except in the looks department. Some E types are now going back to the shop to have their old crash-box re-installed, and the skinny tyres put back on, because that's what the owner bought it for in the first place.

But hey, as Tim says, it's your car!

Mark

[dusty]

It's a dilemma I have at the moment, I was (am) intending to restore my +2 to exactly how it left the factory (colour included)

My reasoning was that I wanted to experience the car the way it would have been back in the 60's and I wouldn't be using it everyday so could put up with a few discomforts and quirks.

However, I'm also thinking that I should make it more usable with a few mods such as

Heated front screen
Alternator (one of those that looks like a dynamo)
Electric fuel pump.
Electric fan

Will this ruin the character of the car or will it just remove some of the frustrations, (not being able to see on a damp morning, overheating in traffic, etc)

Cheers
Jon

[Elanintheforest]

Well, Jon, I guess that I just don't see the point of any of that stuff.

As yours is an early car it has the full width radiator...it won't overheat, so you don't need the fan.

For normal running, the mechanical pump is fine. My BDA engined Plus 2, which does 8mpg when pushed, still uses a mechanical pump, and doesn't suffer from fuel starvation. The only advantage is if you don't use the car for a while, then you have to crank the engine to pump the fuel back up, but a current topic describes a primer pump, which sounds perfect.

A heated front screen is something I've never had on any car! If you're using the car a lot on damp November days I guess it may be useful.

The alternator will absolutely be needed if you start putting on loads of additional electrical gismos, otherwise it isn't. Remember also that the wiring overall is not as protected or as high specification as current cars, and may need to be upgraded if you're adding loads of electrical bits. One thing leads to another...and another....and that seems to be where it all gets over-complicated for a car you want to use for a bit of fun.

I'm sure there are plenty of others with different views, though!

Mark

[Carlos A]

Keep it original except for:

1. Modern alternator
2. Modern K&N air filter
3. Electronic ignition (nobody will know except you and the difference is amazing!)
4. The original choke cable on the Stromgberg cabs is a piece of ? Lets say that you can replace it with a split TR6 cable choke.
5. Driving a car with rubber doughnuts is just silly. A CV conversion makes a big difference.
6. Modern aluminum radiator 26R style? to be cool!

All of this is reversible.

Best

Carlos

[alaric]

Hi all. If the engine's been standing for a while, then cranking it for a while before it fires might be a bonus if the oil's drained out and needs to be pumped round again. I've decided to stick with the good old mech pump for now. I'll probably change to an electric though, as, despite my comment above, it's nice to have the carbs fully primed when you start to crank in hot weather when the fuel evaporates, and in cold when the battery's struggling.

Sean.

[Frank Howard]

I wanted to experience the car the way it would have been back in the 60's

When I want that experience, I pop High Tide & Green Grass into my non-standard Sony CD player, which is driven by my non-standard alternator and protected by my non-standard fuse box. I then crank up the non-standard 6 speakers and listen to Jagger belting out Satisfaction.

[msd1107]

Well, if I want to harken back to the 50s and 60s, I play one of my CDs of Elizabeth Schwarzkopf or Maria Callas, ripped at full resolution played back on my calibrated 7.1 system.

The recordings are still the benchmark, even now. They sound better on modern equipment. (My father built his own state of the art system from the 40s on, so I know what the music sounded like then). Just as an updated Elan is better, in its own way, than a modern car.

Just my slanted opinion. After all, how many people listen to Callas or Schwarzkopf from 40+ years ago, and drive a 40+ year old car.

David
1968 36/7988

[stugilmour]

Agree with Carlos, but would perhaps add...

Upgraded wiring with relays for some of the accessory stuff, as per several recommendations from posters. Maybe less of an issue with the older cars if you can easily replace the switches. Two fuses, kindling for a dash board, fibreglass body, dodgy grounds due to age, and open fuel vents are my reasoning.

Decent modern radio, although this has many views.

Certainly way open to opinion, but some nice minilites fit the bill if the stock wheels have had it. Sympathetic to the era I would say, and I expect eBay stock replacements would not be much better than one's own.

Call me a bit nuts, but I like the original early version stock seats, and would go with replacement to stock with original material if available. Just like the look and feel of them, and they really remind me of "back in the day".

Good halogen headlights rather than sealed beams, but note item one above first.

I have gone a bit further afield with my project, what with a five speed change out, CV joints, alternator by PO, switch to SU's by PO (not real sure on them), non-stock carpet material (might regret that one), replacement dash that I suspect is way better than stock, voltmeter instead on ammeter, customized wiring, Spyder chassis, electric light pods, cassette water pump, etc. Got most of these ideas from the list, so not really alone on this deal.

Like everyone says, each to his own on original vs "resto-mod". Think the key to enjoying the car is to figure the re-sale doesn't matter if you ain't selling.

Cheers!

[worzel]

Hi

I couldn't agree more with Mark about half completed/badly done mods. Lots of alterations may be good ideas in themselves but it depends just how well they've been executed. The way the cars drive is fine but areas such as damp footwells, batteries that don't properly charge, contact points you cannot reach, radiators too small etc would drive me nuts. I've had my car for 31 years and there is no way I'd have kept it so long without attending to the areas I've mentioned (and a few others besides).

I prefer a car that is useable in virtually any conditions. If you prefer them as totally std that's fine too just don't say that the original car is necessarily better. These are after all means of transport rather than just for looking at! What's the point of owning it if certain aspects detract?

Just my opinions of course.

John

[dusty]

Hi

I prefer a car that is useable in virtually any conditions. If you prefer them as totally std that's fine too just don't say that the original car is necessarily better. These are after all means of transport rather than just for looking at! What's the point of owning it if certain aspects detract?

John

This is exactly what's got me thinking. I don't want to go to the considerable effort of restoring the car only to find i prefer looking at than using it!

The CV driveshafts is another thing I'm considering but this is one that i think would change the character of the original driving experience.

[paddy]

My approach to this is to keep things as original as possible, except for:

- things I have no choice over (irreversible changes already made when I got the car);
- things relating to safety - not paranoid but things that should really be done (and I put some rewiring in that category);
- things relating to reliability - again not OTT but I'll drive the car a lot more if I'm more confident it isn't going to let me down;
- instances where I haven't been able to get working original parts.

I have a general rule of not doing anything that is irreversible, and keeping any replaced original parts.

I did CV joints mainly with a view to reliability. (You could also argue on basis of safety - you do hear some horror stories.)

If the car was intended to go in a museum I'd do it differently.

Paddy

[Elanintheforest]

I think that CV driveshaft replacement is a must, mainly because the replacement rotoflex couplings only seem to last a year, and replacing them is a pig of a job. I don't think it changes the character of the car, as once you get used to the rotoflex, you don't go kangaroo-ing down the road...they just feel normal with a bit of care. The drive shafts just remove the need for care!

Like John, I've had my S3 Elan for a long time...nearly 35 years now! The battery has always charged up properly, and the car has never overheated, and the car was used everyday for 5 years and was kept on the street. In fact, it is still the best car I've ever driven in the snow. So it copes with 'all conditions', or at least, all conditions it was designed for. My daily commute, from Ross-on-Wye to Camberley, is a round trip of 250 miles. The Elan would do that, no problem. But a modern car does it a lot more easily, and in a lot more comfort. If I did the trip everyday in the Elan, I would need to service it every other weekend!

I can't disagree about the points being a pain to sort out. But then again, it takes 10 minutes to remove the carbs and get the points checked / replaced, maybe another 15 minutes to clean everything up and put it back together, and that's maybe once a year. If electronic ignition was foolproof, I'd probably fit it, but a quick search through some of the old posts shows that they fail, quite frequently, and when they do it's terminal.

I guess that the point I'm trying to make is that when the cars were new, they didn't overheat, they did charge their batteries, they did pump their petrol with no problem, and they were reliable, if serviced properly. If you really are going to drive the car for 20k or 30k miles a year, as Brian Buckland does, then I'm sure some of the 'normal' mods would be most beneficial. But most of us use them for less than a couple of thousand miles a year, and for the rest of the time, they're sat cosseted in a nice dry garage.

I really think that the cars are 'upgraded' because it makes the owner feel better....the mods actually make no real practical difference. There are some guys currently putting injection onto twincams, and discarding those awful weber carbs. Will it dramatically improve performance and reduce fuel consumption? I doubt it, and the real impact is even less if the cars are driven a couple of thousand miles a year. But I'm sure that they are having great fun doing the work, which must be challenging and very rewarding when they get it right.

One last point. Everyone seems to agree that a standard car is worth more than a modified one. If that's the case, and I'm sure it is, then.....WHY?

Mark

[Robbie693]

Whenever I am presented with a problem with my car I am then in a dilemma as whether to upgrade or replace as original. What I usually find myself thinking is that whenever I read any contemporary road tests, I find no mention of the problems we have today. Things such as overheating, electrical problems, oil leaks, fuel smells (although I'm not sure about that one), etc.

This makes me wonder if these things were normal for all cars of the time and therefore not mentioned as a particular problem or if the things that annoy today are a result of the cars being 40 odd years old and subject to years of varying quality maintenance and/or substandard re-manufactured parts that we occasionally have to contend with - anything made of rubber it would seem being a case in point.

I try to keep things original from a cosmetic Pont of view but have no problem with things like a spyder chassis or solid drive shafts for instance. Part of the appeal of these cars to me is how they look, bodywork and interior fittings primarily (Does that make me shallow?!), I just like the way Lotus designed them.

Robbie