buy a +2

[Uboat]

I'm about to buy an Elan +2. And I believe I have found som good objects for sale on mobile.de and classicarsforsale.co.uk

However, I just found this excellent web site, and all the interesting tips and questions in the forum. This makes me wonder, can you actually live with an Elan + 2 without being a professional mechanic?

Are also good examples bound for breakdown, or are you all finishing thorough restorations?

Please give me some advice. I'm thinking about Alfa Romeo GTVs or Fiat 124 spider from the same period. Are the comparable in build quality?

I intend to use my car for active driving on roads, not on race tracks...

[tdafforn]

My answer would be yes. The car is nowhere near as complex as a modern car and if you can find a mechanic that is older than 40 then he'll probably relish the thought of working on something that doesn't need a degree in electronic systems.
In terms of build quality, if you choose well you can get something that shouldn't have too many major problems. E.g. a car with a replaced chassis and newly rebuilt engine. In terms of comparisons with the alfa, the fact that there is less likelihood of rust is probably a plus point!

Tim

[Uboat]

Thanks!
How about the timing chain. When are you expected to change, is there a service instruction for this? Also when do you need to change the water pump, which I have read a lot about?
I also see the fibre glass as an advantage...


What are you expected to payfor a good example in the UK with a sound engine that don't need immediate repair ?

[stugilmour]

I'm about to buy an Elan +2. And I believe I have found som good objects for sale on mobile.de and classicarsforsale.co.uk

... I'm thinking about Alfa Romeo GTVs or Fiat 124 spider from the same period. Are the comparable in build quality?

I intend to use my car for active driving on roads, not on race tracks...

I am also considering a +2; do not own one now. Very envious of the wide selection you folks have in the UK!

I did own a '74 Alfa Berlina (same drive train as GTV) "back in the day" and a friend recently completed restoration of a Fiat 124 Spider. Rust is certainly a big concern with both these models.

Depending on your local climate, you may be happy with the Italian stuff, but here in Canada the Alfa was problematic. Seemed like a head gasket every winter, two major engine failures occurred, and the dreaded tin worm took it's toll after about four years (rockers, fenders, etc.). NA spec Alfa also benefited from conversion to Euro cams and twin Webers from Spica mechanical fuel injection due to reliability issues; probably not an issue your side of pond. Interesting to note that both Fiat and Alfa no longer service the NA market. On the plus side, the Alfa was a really cool ride with nice interior styling, surprisingly few electrical issues, excellent transmission and dif, great handling for the day, more power than BMW 2002 tii, seating for four, great boot size, etc.

I am a long way from informed on the +2. My impression from when they were manufactured is that they were/are? somewhat fussy to keep in tune, but I am not sure this is any more problematic that the Alfa or Fiat. A friend owned both a Fiat 124 followed by an Elan +0 in the '70's, and certainly found the Elan more costly, but this is really just an impression.

Other general impression I have of the +2 is that there are a LOT of variants and parts updates/running changes that one might find a bit arcane when restoring or considering purchase. I guess the good part of this is folks seemed to have selected the best replacement spares with less concern to rigid "originality"; this is certainly similar to the vintage BMW scene. Seems it is hard to tell what is original on a Lotus in a lot of cases!

I suppose with any vintage car, the advice I have received seems to be the same...

* Get something that will maintain some passion, because you are probably going to need the extra energy to have the desire and patience to keep the car in good condition.
* Get the model you really want; it costs a lot of dough to sell and get a different model if your preference changes.
* Buy the best example you can rather than fuss the price, colour, etc. first.
* Get expert opinion prior to purchase, ideally helping with pre-purchase inspection details.
* Don't consider this vintage of car a daily driver.
* Look upon electrical problems as a hobby rather than work. Usually well within ability to be owner fixed, and cost a lot to have done professionally. Just takes patience and a second car to run to the shop for parts!

Cheers!

Stu
Calgary Alberta
1987 BMW M6
Faceless mini-van for parts runs and winter driving

[denicholls2]

Generally speaking, I agree that a +2 should be no less reliable than the other cars you mention. They are noted for their lack of same.

All period FIATs are made of recycled rust. You can slow it down but not stop it. And in spite of the fact that many were made, you may find parts availability a problem. For example, I couldn't locate head bolts for my 124 Coupe when the car was only 15 years old. All FIAT twincams MUST have timing belt replacements every 20,000 miles or you're likely to need a new engine. And the 5-speed gearbox can be quite a handful as well.

On the disagreement side, I believe it is hard to comfortably buy a "good quality" Lotus and get what you thought you bought. This list, for example, is strewn with owners who paid a premium to buy a clean car from a dealer and found themselves with a rat, shoddily restored or "rebuilt" by slapping in rings and a head gasket and lapping the valves. Check the older posts to see what I mean.

If you want a reliable car, I'd look for a well-sorted Zetec that has a good list pedigree, as in the owner is well-known and respected. With few exceptions, buying from a dealer is a good formula for grief as they have no more obligations with older cars to reveal the truth than an owner does. And you can verify if an owner really cared for the car. But these cars are few, and you won't buy them cheaply.

If you want an original car, I'll offer that you need to expect the worst from whatever you buy and therefore may be best off with a tired car that clearly needs work. I'm personally in the market for either a Just 2 or +2 and would prefer a nice car cosmetically with tired mechanicals because I like working on mechanicals better than sanding fiberglass and filling my nostrils with paint overspray. Decide what's best for you, but bear in mind that the pedigree matters. What the owner or dealer say about a car is one thing, what others say about it is something more.

I'll also offer to beware low-mileage cars. They have most likely spent long periods laid up in garages or fields, and sitting idle is not a good thing. Any original bits that are over 30 years old aren't new anymore, be honest with yourself! Better a car that is loved by its owner, kept in running order, and used regularly.

Go with a Lotus, good luck, and have fun! But don't expect it to be as reliable as a Toyota.

[1964 S1]

I ditto the above, go with the Lotus. It's a Lotus. Fiat has made some great cars but a 124 is a brick compared to a +2, and the Alfas have nothing special going for them, except maybe style, the spyders have scuttle shake galore and coupes feel overweight. It's fun driving the Lotus in a way that the other two marques can't even dream of trying to equal.

[gordonlund]

U Boat,

Have a look in Business & Vender Listing on this Forum for my Lotus Elan Restoration Guide. It will answer all your questions and many more.

Gordon Lund

[elansprint71]

Uboat,
When you have read that interesting booklet, check out Brian Buckland's Addendum Workshop Manual which will really tell you all you need to know about Elans. It might look expensive but compared to the cost of buying a crap Elan it is miniscule and if you decide to walk away... e-Bay!


It's difficult to compare the +2 with the mass produced alternatives you are considering; they are different animals. At comparable price the FIAT and Alfa will be either rusted out wrecks, or dubious re-builds; my advice would be to buy the best +2 that you can afford and look upon it as a longer term project. One day these cars will command their true value, so many having been dismantled for parts over the last few years. Get a runner and do a rolling restoration.

[Uboat]

Thanks again, I'm touched by the attention you guys pay a rookie like me!

Your information is very important to me, because in Scandinavia were I live, you don't find many Lotus Elan +2s to compare with.

The italian cars are indeed prone to rust, but

I tried a beautiful Alfa 1600 GTJ once. It is really a masterpiece in terms of styling and design, except for the seats, but the driving experiance was rather dull. Experts tell me that the Fiat spyder is superior to the Alfa Spyders in terms of build quality

[1964 S1]

Fiat versus Alfa build qualities discussion is for that other web site. In my mind it's a dead heat on a merry-go-round.
The difference between driving a +2 and a Fiat 124/2000 Spyder for me would read something like formula race car versus uncomfortable bus. (based on the Fiat's steering wheel position)
Some Alfas are great cars, but Elans are Elans, they're simply unique and better. If you're thinking of buying an Elan because you think it might be the Best Driving car in it's pricing, era, performance category, you're right.

[1964 S1]

...addendum, .... this eve I ran the S1 through the neighborhood, to and from a local favorite dinner cafe, up and down hill curves Scrreeaming the engine while driving too quick around corners and thinking of what I'd written the night before on Elan.net, It's true....Elans are in a class of their own ..... we're a lucky bunch of guys.
My wife was with me, she didn't shift in her seat, glance at me, or really anything.... I think she was just enjoying the thrill too, I'll have to ask her.

[bengalcharlie]

hi,

there I own a plus two and a classic alfa and several lancia's I hope I can give you some help in making a decision.
In my humble opinion the lotus is more fragile ie if one component is worn/broken the whole car is s...t. so up to date maintenance is vital and therefore you buy a car that has been used regurlarely so you know it is reliable.
the lotus has more torque than equivalent italian counterparts so you do not need to rev the car as much if you do not feel like it.
the lotus is not a very sophisticated car and is made of very basic materials but all put together it works very well.
the Italians on the other hand are more refined and the engines are a piece of art and very reliable. The sound of a italian engine revving hard is a sound no english car can equal.
Part wise it does not matter, for both parts are easier to come by then 20 years ago so before I ramble on it comes down to personal taste.
I feel lucky I have both!!!
All the best
Robin

[b-havers]

Your information is very important to me, because in Scandinavia were I live, you don't find many Lotus Elan +2s to compare with.

Hi Uboat,
whereabout are you?
I live close to Oslo, there are 5 known +2s in Norway, abit more in Sweden - and I know nothing about the Danish marked.

My +2S has had some ignition problem the latest year, but after a couple of wise tricks from the guys on this list, it now runs like it has never done before.
I planned on selling the car, but now I'm far from sure I want to part with it anymore...

[greg.harvey]

Sorry to resurrect a month old thread, but thought I'd add my 2p!

I've had my +2 for 4 years now (I think...?) and have had relatively few problems. Apart from it being immobilised by a knackered distributor for a time, it has been 100% reliable. Odd things happen here and there that are irritating, but if you like to potter on a weekend and enjoy fiddling with cars, owning and running a +2 on a day-to-day basis should be fun.

Having said that, the Zetec conversion someone mentioned is the obvious choice for the most trouble-free motoring. But where's the fun in that?!

(And I think the Zetecs are several thousand pounds more than the originals?)