End of life for TC ?

[b-havers]

Taking the +2 for a 'late summer' trip today, it was running on two cylinders only, and giving loads of dark smoke. It also sounded like an old fishingboat...
I have from previous runs this summer experienced that it took some time for the engine to start running on all four cylindres, but today it didn't succeed in doing so.

I must admit, the car has not been run for nearly two months...

I am pretty sure the engine needs loads of TLC, and will give it a good recondition this autum/winter. Is there anything special to be aware of? Any special TwinCam tricks?

Hope to do most of the work by myself, helped by a previous rally-engineer friend. Guess the bore-job must be sent away, though.

Is Burton Power the best place to buy the needed parts, or are there other vendors that can be recommended?

Regards
Bjorn-Anders, Norway
'69 Europa S2
'69 Marcos 3.0 V6
'71 Elan +2S 130/4

[reb53]

Are you sure you need a recon?
Have you done all the usual engine checks to determine this? ( Like compression tests etc.)

A few months without running shouldn't be a problem or cause trouble. During the winter I leave mine for months and it fires up and settles down pretty quick.

Does "dark smoke" mean black or blue?
A puff or two of blue is no big deal, especially if it's been sitting for a while, whereas black smoke may mean you're running super-rich and could have a holed carb float which plays hell with a couple of cylinders.

You probably need to do a little more investigating before planning the overhaul.

Ralph.

[b-havers]

The engine is really not up to what it should be. And it hasn't been for a couple of years.
Low acceleration, low top speed (I struggel to make it reach 70 mph...), lazy reaction when pushing the accelerator pedal... And not the lovely TC sound, it really sound like a twostroke boatengine...

In addition to this; driving behind me gives your car a oily front. My car is spitting oil and water...

So, I'll pretty sure te best thing to do is giving it a real recon. And; this might also cure the oil leak

"Dark smoke" is black smoke.
Strange is; after driving real hard, it pumps out loads of white smoke - which as far as I know is no good sign for the headgasket....

[oldokie]

The white smoke could be the brake booster!

[b-havers]

The white smoke could be the brake booster!

What?
I have a leaking brake caliper, but the servo???
Tell me about it, please!! This is something I don't know the connection between...

[1964 S1]

A leaking caliper will not lead to white smoke. From what I've read, if a brake booster goes bad it can lead to massive thick can't see through it clouds of white out the exhaust because brake fluid is sucked into the combustion chamber. I don't think that's your current problem. Are you sure it's a caliper that's leaking? Can you see the fluid coming out? How's your brake pedal feel? My Stromberged +2 runs on two or three cylinders for a couple of miles sometimes if I haven't driven it a lot, then it coughs and clears and screams down the road in full song. Have you removed the plugs to inspect for rich running? What type carbs do you have?

[b-havers]

I really can't see the fluid dripping out of the caliper, but after the car has been standing still for some time, there are rust-traces from some kind of fluid running from the bleeding screw.

And; when driving, I have to top up the brake fluid from time to time I don't know where fluid disappeares, though).

I have fitted a new brake master (from PM), as well as new brake hoses. The calipers were said to be refurbished when I bought the car from UK Sportscars a couple of years ago (they also said that the rust falling out from the sills were nothing to worry about - it cost me two new galvanized sills and a lot of work...).

The brake works very well, but the pedal are rather low.
It does not pull to either side when braking.


The whole (...) problem is that I feel the car is missing 50% of its power, and that it runs on two or three cylidres for some time before it catches up. Apart from the lastrunning (some 30 miles) it never run on more than two or three cylindres.
Then there is the smoke, of course...

Anyhow; I need to open the engine; it could be as easy as a stuck valve or something, but it sure needs to be checked....

[ppnelan]

To eliminate the servo & also the headlamp vacuum system from the list of possible problems, I suggest disconnecting the vacuum connections from the inlet 'manifold' and blanking them off. Then see what difference it makes...
Does it use water, or pressurise the cooling system? If not, then the head gasket probably isn't completely wrecked...
Check the valve clearances with the engine warm. If there aren't any(!), this could be your problem...

I had a similarly poor (Dellorto) engine in my +2. It kept pressurising the cooling system and was always down on power. When I changed the head gasket, I noticed that the head bolt holes had been machined off-centre through the casting bosses. The bosses had cracked where the bolts had tried to slip off the side, despite a machine shop repair using steel inserts, and the bolt holes were banana shaped... It was a little better for a while with a new head gasket, but still not perfect. Rather than try to make a bad one good (the previous owner had taken it to his local garage for repairs & servicing rather than a specialist, and it shows!), I bought a QED rebuilt (Stromberg) engine on eBay which I'm still running in but it goes SO MUCH better. I will have a proper look at the old (original) engine when/if I get the chance...

Good luck

Matthew

[Elanintheforest]

Before you strip the engine, check to see if number 4 plug is oiled up. If it is, disconnect the vacuum pipe from No 4 inlet manifold that goes to the servo. and seal the inlet manifold vacuum outlet...clean and replace the spark plug and start the car up. If it's running better without white smoke, then I suspect that brake fluid is being sucked from the servo into number 4 cylinder, causing the smoke and making the engine only fire on 3 cylinders. It would also explain you loosing brake fluid. A 3 cylinder twincam feels very very slow.
Mark

[Robbie693]

When I had a servo go the white smoke was accompanied by severe pinking - may be an indication

[b-havers]

Before you strip the engine, check to see if number 4 plug is oiled up. If it is, disconnect the vacuum pipe from No 4 inlet manifold that goes to the servo. and seal the inlet manifold vacuum outlet...clean and replace the spark plug and start the car up. If it's running better without white smoke, then I suspect that brake fluid is being sucked from the servo into number 4 cylinder, causing the smoke and making the engine only fire on 3 cylinders. It would also explain you loosing brake fluid. A 3 cylinder twincam feels very very slow.
Mark

Great, I'll give it a try!
But, there is no pinking, just the absolute lack of power....

Illl check it out the coming weekend.

[types26/36]

Why dont you just start at the begining instead of half guessing about this and that........do a compression test as the first step and post the results.

[b-havers]

Gents, the TC has come back from the grave.

WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!!


I have done some tests on the engine.

First, removing all the spark plugs, the no 4 was very dirty from oil. They were all new in May. Gave them all a throughout cleaning.

When all the plugs were out, I did three comp tests.
I'll try to make a table here; first column indicates plug number, the three other columns indicate test numbers:

1: 10 10,5 10,5
2: 11 10,5 11
3: 11,5 12 12
4: 11,5 11,75 11,75

To me, it doesn't look too bad.

Also plugged the brake booster vacuum hose (Well, I'm not sure it's 100% plugged; didn't have the correct sized hose in the garage..)

Started the engine, and it was obvious that something had changed.
Took the car for a drive, about the same distance and route as Saturday, and this time I had to limit my driving to 5500 rpm. Overtook cars with no problems, and really had a fun time. I can not sell this car!!!

Does this mean that the brake booster is defect, and I would need a new one? Or; I guess there is no danger driving without it; it's just a bit harder brake pedal? The brakes still worked very fine.


But, it still smokes black smoke like an old dirty factory, and it smells "wet exhaust". Apart from this it's lovely to drive (well, I would absolutely like the dashboard light to work...)

Now, how can I test what causes the smoking?

I've put out some MP3's of the Elan's noise, with and without the brake booster (sorry 'bout the quality, this is my first ever experience with a mp3 recorder...):
http://www.haverstad.net/lotus/elan/exh ... ooster.mp3
http://www.haverstad.net/lotus/elan/exh ... ooster.mp3
http://www.haverstad.net/lotus/elan/tic ... ooster.mp3
http://www.haverstad.net/lotus/elan/tic ... ooster.mp3

Especially on the tick over files you can hear tremendous difference in the running; in the 'without' file the engine is much more "willing to run".


So; what's next to eliminate the smoking?

[oldokie]

I just bypassed my booster, like the feel of the brakes better now; did have to restore Earth to headlights (black wire under the booster bracket).

As to the smoking, you can drive it and see if it cleans itself out; remember you cleaned the plugs but not the chambers OR carefully, lightly mist the carbs (air box off) @ 2500 rpm with water, again, not too much, just very lightly!

[b-havers]

I just bypassed my booster, like the feel of the brakes better now; did have to restore Earth to headlights (black wire under the booster bracket).

Do I have to plug the hose removed from the inlet manifold? Will the brake fluid leak from it -or can it just be as it is now; disconnected?
Or should I rewire the brake line to go past the booster?
The headlights worked fine, can't see no reason to re-earth them...?

As to the smoking, you can drive it and see if it cleans itself out; remember you cleaned the plugs but not the chambers OR carefully, lightly mist the carbs (air box off) @ 2500 rpm with water, again, not too much, just very lightly!

Strange; water in the carbs...? Guess I'll have a lot to learn from engine-works..
Sounds like a job for the weekend ,-)
Will the 'carb cleaner' stuff you can buy at different garages do any good?



I'll do my best to use the cars as much as possible, but the weather forcast says rain rain rain - and there is a leak somewhere in the windows frame, just above my right knee....