Lotus Elan

So Very Very Yellow

PostPost by: Over Steer » Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:56 pm

the elan is coming along nicely... Engine and retrim next
Attachments
post1.JPG and
From This
Elan Restoration_03.JPG and
To This
Elan Restoration_20.JPG and
Elan Restoration_15.JPG and
Elan Restoration_09.JPG and
Elan Restoration_08.JPG and
Elan Restoration_03.JPG and
Jan

1963 23B
1969 Elan + 2
1973 Europa JPS Special
2004 Prep'ed Lotus Exige
User avatar
Over Steer
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Location: Malta

PostPost by: Jason1 » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:06 pm

It looks good Jan.

Are you using cellulose paint or 2K?

It looks like you are using a high build primer/filler, are you repairing the gel cracks with tissue or just spraying over with the primer? Did you do any repairs to the gel coat?

Sorry for the questions, I am hoping to paint mine when I move house next year to a house with a garage. :)

I have done a little bodywork with steel bodies but know only what I have read about GRP bodies in books.

I have seen companies advertising strip back to gel coat and re-gel but as I understand the gel is applied onto the mould before the layers are built up to enable the finished panel to be removed from the mould. This gel then seals the strands of the material, so is it possible to re-gel an old panel? or are these people just applying a new layer of resin to old panel? If all it is is a new resin coat then anyone could do this with a paint brush? :? :?

Can anyone help me get this clear in my head??

Thanks

Jason
User avatar
Jason1
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Location: Colchester, Essex. UK

PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:16 pm

Hi Jason. If you just put resin in the gelcoat crack it will crack again very quickly. Each crack has to be ground down to below the botton of the crack, for a couple of inches either side of the crack, then fibreglass tissue wet with resin applied. Then rubbed down and filled.

Often on old Lotii, the cracks will be repaired like this, then the whole body covered in tissue and resin, and rubbed down. This is because with lots of cracks, the body can become pourous, and microblisters will soon appear. Covering the whole body (re-gelcoating) provides a waterproof layer, to protect the paint from any moisture coming from underneath.
Try and get hold of Miles Wikens 'Repairing Fibreglass' book...it tells you all you need to know...and more. There is also a companion book about painting, mainly fibreglass related. He's spent the last 30 years repairing Lotii.
Mark
User avatar
Elanintheforest
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2950
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Forest Of Dean, Gloucestershire

PostPost by: Jason1 » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:09 pm

Hi Mark

I have the Miles Wilkins book, it very old, mine was published in 1984. It's a good book but was wondering if the new primer/fillers and 2k paints would save a lot of the work?

So you are saying that a re-gel is a process of covering the whole body with tissue and resin? No wonder the specialists want ?5,000 to do my +2. I can see that this would take a long time.

Thanks

Jason
User avatar
Jason1
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Location: Colchester, Essex. UK

PostPost by: nebogipfel » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:18 pm

Jason1 wrote:Hi Mark

I have the Miles Wilkins book, it very old, mine was published in 1984. It's a good book but was wondering if the new primer/fillers and 2k paints would save a lot of the work?



Sorry I just had to jump in here :) The repair technique in the Wilkins book is as effective today as it was 20 years ago.

There is no way just adding gel resin will repair cracks, they must be ground out and repaired with mat and tissue.

Modern paints are more durable as a final finish and modern primers shrink less but they are all just paint. You cannot repair anything with paint!

The paint job will only ever be as good as what is underneath it :wink:
John

No longer active on here, I value my privacy.
User avatar
nebogipfel
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1716
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Location: Norfolk UK

PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:27 pm

The modern 2K stuff is very hard wearing (try T cutting it!) and flexible, but Nebogipfel is absolutely right...if it isn't repaired properly underneath it will come through. Some paint shops may even claim that the primers they use are flexible enough to cover the cracks, and keep them at bay...but it doesn't work. 2K is a much easier system to paint than the old cellulose, and takes up small imperfections where cellulose will show them all up. That's the main reason everybody uses it...far less time required in preparation.

The 2K system will probably work for quite a time in an area that isn't usually stressed...like a star crack due to stone. But around a stressed area, like door handle, B Post, boot hinge, headlamp pod appatures, screen pillars, etc it will re-crack at the same speed as cellulose.

Read up on Wilkins book... it hasn't been bettered yet. And use the best materials...resin goes off if not used within 3 months or so. And the last tip...be very very careful with the angle grinder when grinding either side of the crack...a hot knife through butter doesn't come close :shock:
Mark
User avatar
Elanintheforest
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2950
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Forest Of Dean, Gloucestershire

PostPost by: mikealdren » Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:57 am

Jason,
I'll echo everyone's points - preparation is everything with painting.
I've just completed stripping the paint off my +2. I avoided strippers and I used the chisel method, it really works but it take ages!
Get a sharp woodchisel (1/2 inch is ok) and a stone to keep sharpening it. Basically you slide the chisel along the surface of the fibreglass and chip away at the edge of the paint. You'll get the best chisel angle by trial and error. Start at a crack and you can get to the surface easily.
Get down to the primer/filler and you can then sand that easily with production paper or wet and dry. I found that dry production paper (80 grit) makes light work of most things then, as you get to the firbreglass, switch to about 180 grit).
You will slip with the chisel occasionally, especially around old repairs, but you can always make good minor damage on fibreglass.

I found loads of holes in the passenger compartment (including some splits in the fibreglass) so I've had plenty of practice at fibreglass repairs before I tackle anything on the outside surface. I've also got a lot of tidying up to do under the bonnet. Some earlier repairs are terrible - fibreglass layered up over paint and underseal so it simply peels away!

Miles Wilkins' book really is a great (and straighforward) guide.

Good luck
Mike
mikealdren
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1224
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Location: Surrey England

PostPost by: gerrym » Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:38 pm

Mike, I've started to remove my paint via chisel method. Top layer is brittle , then I've got another layer of much tougher yellow on top of lots of body filler, then more yellow etc. Becasue the bigger panels flex under the chisel pressure, I've tried removing with an air DA sander, but need a bigger 10mm ID hose to power it. Do you or anyone else have any good tips on how to get the best out of a DA sander. By the way I have a 2HP and a 3HP air compressor working in parallel to get enough air.

Gerry
gerrym
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 894
Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Location: Aberdeen Scotland

PostPost by: nebogipfel » Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:03 pm

Gerry,

The critical factor when powering a D/A is the "free air delivery" in cfm (cubic feet per minute) of the compressor pump. My compressor delivers 14cfm total (I think the f.a.d is about 11cfm) and it is just adequate for uninterrupted sanding - A D/A is a greedy beast :)

A friend of mine swears by an electric D/A (he is a pro' painter) but I can't really comment on how good they are, having never used one.

At least when stripping, you can use coarse discs (P40 grit) - just remember to be a bit careful when you get down to the final coat!
John

No longer active on here, I value my privacy.
User avatar
nebogipfel
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1716
Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Location: Norfolk UK

PostPost by: Azureblue » Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:35 pm

Hi Jan,

Can you tell me what colour of yellow you painted the plus 2, is it Bahama or Lotus?

Thanks

Ian
(Elise S1 & Elan S4 SE)
Azureblue
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 20
Joined: 08 Nov 2003

PostPost by: Over Steer » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:00 pm

it was a standard lotus yellow off the colour chart; I can get the brand and number from the paint shop if you like
Jan

1963 23B
1969 Elan + 2
1973 Europa JPS Special
2004 Prep'ed Lotus Exige
User avatar
Over Steer
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 104
Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Location: Malta

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests