Plus 2 values on the up?

[h20hamelan]

I have tentative plans for an electric 7
Originally, looking for a +2 to convert. About 10 years ago, the +2 is more scarce in N. America.
Range is the problem. With existing batteries, rebuilt Chev Bolt or Tesla batteries. Looks like I should be able to get to shopping 80 km 55 miles away. Hook into a charger, and return.

It doesn?t seem there is/will be any big breakthrough in battery technology.
My 80ish year old just retired computer programmer father finally turned in his p3 computer from the 80?s. Citing computers haven?t made any huge leaps, they are simply a bit faster.

As I wait for batteries to vastly improve before I make the plunge, I havent seen any new breakthroughs.
And it actually looks like I will be going for the good old graphite composite, rather than the lithium. But we will see.

[jeff jackson]

mmmmm. I am rather hoping for the uptake in Hydrogen fuel cell technology. No need for batteries, generate the electricity you need by burning Hydrogen (By product: Water).
Honda and Hyundai have cars with this, but the problem right now is generating the Hydrogen in the first place and then finding somewhere to store it. I'm sure the horse and cart will be making a come back soon.....
Jeff 72+2

[Craven]

+1 for Hydrogen powered cars, there is currently research that shows the production of Hydrogen from solar power. A scheme that would use vast arrays of solar panels in say Australia would be used for this, to overcome the difficult Hydrogen transportation storage problem is to combine the hydrogen with nitrogen to make ammonia. It?s a technique that is well-established, and has been done on an industrial scale for nearly a century, Ammonia can be compressed into a liquid at much more moderate temperatures, and is relatively easy to transport.
What was missing ? until recently ? was the technology to extract the hydrogen back out of the ammonia at the other end of the export equation. However the establishment of a pilot plant to test technology that can refine a 100% pure stream of hydrogen from gasified ammonia using a metal membrane is under way.

[Bozzie]

Well I too have a view on the ups and downs! Let?s be honest here, most of us here are aged I would say in our early 50?s and upwards! We remember these cars and now we can afford them we enjoy them. A car collector friend explained that the reason many 50?s and 60?s cars are dipping in value is simply that there just are not so many people that nostalgically remember them hence a lack of interest. Late 70?s and 80?s (& 90?s) cars are booming and rocketing in value because there are lots of people who remember driving them and aspiring to the more desirable models. I suppose there will always be a handful of bespoke marques that go up and up, but as for the more mainstream makes it?s a different story. I think our interest and the relative rarity of most Lotus models will protect our cars from dips but it?s S1 Elise?s and Exiges that are ever so desirable today and becoming quite scarce!! I?m certainly no expert and I?m sure everyone has an opinion and that?s what makes our purchases so interesting.

[jeff jackson]

Bozzie,
You may be right. I lusted after an Elan +2 when I just turned 20. (I'm now 59).
Working all hours and saving like crazy I bought one when I was 21. Cost? ?2500. I sold it three years later for the same price. (What an idiot) My second +2 I have had now for 27 years. I still drive it to work on occasion. Today I was approached by two of our apprentices, wanting to know if I would sell it to them. Both are 22 years old.
I did tell them how much I have agreed valuation insurance on it and if they were serious, then they would have to offer 2K over that. Shocked at how much the old girl was potentially worth, they skulked away.
Not that I would ever sell it, Hopefully will be handed down to one of our children.
Jeff 72+2

PS I wouldn't mind a S1 Elise though........

[JonB]

Good for you Jeff

[DJW]

Have seen air cooled 911 prices dropping over last 6 months and lots of cars still for sale for 6 months +. I think the classic car bubble has burst and lots of investors are finding it hard to accept, this lots of cars at high prices not selling.

Lotus cars don?t seem to have been caught up in the madness of last 4 years as much, so on flip side have less to fall. But prices are falling either way.

On the subject of electrifying classics , how about a Tesla powered Porsche 912 for inspiration
https://youtu.be/CYrk5r4kiSM

[The Veg]

If some economists are right about a recession coming next year, look for classic/collectable/antique car prices to drop as some people will need to raise cash.

[richardcox_lotus]

If some economists are right about a recession coming next year, look for classic/collectable/antique car prices to drop as some people will need to raise cash.

The flip side of that is with interest rates at rock bottom, Classic Cars remain a viable ?investment?.

The market does seem soft though.

[DJW]

Agree re cheap money but the days of classics as investments have peaked a while back. More a case of ?attainable? on the understanding prices are softening as you mentioned.

[JonB]

So apart from the context of softening prices for classic cars (much discussed but never witnessed by myself as a potential buyer!) do we think that Plus 2 values are getting better or worse? Let's face it, they have never been that expensive. Only way is up?

[alanr]

The problem is that the relatively low value of the +2 means that restoring one is not really a sensible and sound investment due to the silly high cost of parts not equalling what the final value of the car can return.
As a random example I am currently in the market for a fuel tank and it looks like it is going to cost me the thick end of ?500 wheras for instance a MGB new steel fuel tank is approximately a ?100.
From a purely investment perspective a good and nicely restored MGB is no doubt a better proposition than a +2 but I am sure that investment potential is not why we are addicted to Lotus and +2's ...or is it?

[JonB]

No, it's the way it drives, of course.

[DJW]

The ship sailed 12 months ago for last of decent rises in classic cars and prices are falling. I sold an air cooled 911 5 years ago just before the madness started and values peaked at 400% rise. They have been coming down in price monthly for last 12 months.

The lucky thing for us lotus owners is our cars never got caught up to the same levels of madness, so it?s a softer ride down.

There?s often a big difference between asking prices for cars and what they actually sell at. Only if the latter is known do we get to see a true reflection of market. After owning around 75 cars to date , 8 of which have been Lotus I can say the lotus cars have been the most stable in terms of prices and ultimately cost the least to own in real terms taking into account depreciation and running costs.

As said though who cares what a car is worth, it?s all about the ownership experience

[jimj]

In idle moments I often glance at classic car auction results. Cars have sold for that price with another, underbidder, offering nearly as much, a true value on that day. I think someone buying an Elan, or a +2, really wants to chat with the previous owner so an auction is not somewhere, I think, you`re likely to get a good price.

Having said that, there`s been a few auctioned over the last couple of years and I`ve noticed, in general, they`ve gone for rather more than previously. The nonsense with, say, 911s and E types doesn't reflect real trends.
Jim