Should we as owners try to set sensible +2 Prices

[trw99]

Whilst an Elan is rare compared to an E Type, that is not reflected in values. Rarity seems to have little to do with value in our case, oddly.

Then have a look at the price even cooking Mk 1 Escorts are fetching these days. They were anything but rare, yet folk value them very highly. I believe that to be due to the Escort having been the car a lot of people grew up with and perhaps they lusted after the RS, Mexico or TC versions. I guess the same can be said about the E Type. They were comparatively common on the road in their day and thus very lust-worthy, whereas the rare Elan was a more specialist case, lusted after by those of us in the know!

Taking this further, compare the price of Elans with Ferrari Dinos (I know, it wasn’t called a Ferrari ...). Built in smaller numbers , 3,500 odd, than Elans, it is rarer, was seen even less on the roads, though often on bedroom walls, again a specialist case and lusted after by those in the know.

Thus we come back to the value of our cars and it’s a truism to state the market finds its own level, obeying the laws of supply and demand.

Tim

[steveh]

"Should we as owners try to set sensible +2 Prices"
I would say they are already fair on the UK market , up to £8-10k for a project , £15k+ for a driver, mid to high twenties for a recently sorted correctly rebuilt car , concours £35-40K?. Misrepresenting categories by some sellers does'nt help .

The misleading Hagerty guide quotes £7250 for a daily runner +2 ? and £28k for the very best in the world unblemished detail perfect example , S+10% , s130 +20% , please show us some examples !.

Regarding E types, the demand and desire is far higher than for elans . To echo what Mark said about restoration costs, a new repro E type bonnet is now £9k in primer---double that if you buy one from Jaguar Classic Parts.

Steve

[Slowtus]

"Should we as owners try to set sensible +2 Prices"

You can indeed "try" but...

"If wishes were horses, beggars would ride"

[mbell]

The misleading Hagerty guide quotes £7250 for a daily runner +2 ?

Yes the US +2 Hagerty number are pretty useless. The fact is there aren't enough transactions on +2 available in the US to value them to any sensible way. There something like a max of 500 +2 in the country and from what I have seen probably ~25/year come up for sale in a visible way.

[prezoom]

We picked up a Price Guide while at the RM Auction a couple of weeks ago. In the latest printed edition, the Plus2 was not listed. Two of my other cars are quite rare, and neither of them are listed as well. One can only rely on what another party is willing to pay. A good Sprint should get a bump after the $56,000 sale at Bonhams.

[h20hamelan]

Good point, Mark, and that explains why people aren't crawling all over the moon, "not because it is easy, but because it is hard".

Personally, I am jolly glad Elans are cheaper!

I would rather have a stable of Lotus Élans, that are repairable. Than one E or Ferrari etc which I would be too scared to drive because of the dollar figure. Also, as far as posted speed limits and the most important “Fun Factor” go.

Though i grew up around some (what in Canada would be rare) 20’s & 30’s Rolls, a Aston Martin DB 1.5. Jags D 120 etc. Learned to drive in a TVR Tuscan. Read just about every Autocar from 1910 (didn’t retain enough of it now in my old age). Best friends father owned a big Jewlery chain in Ontario, and had Bugattis, Ferraris worth far too much money, they were never used. There is absolutely nothing of interest out there for me. Which is the funny thing I guess, that I put what is about $20,000 Canadian dollars (£13,000) for two cars, above all others. I couldn’t afford much else, which is where the Élan came from, the poor mans Ferrari.

[vincereynard]

Value on any "classic" car is firstly a bit illogical and secondly based on more emotion than sense.

The problem a +2 has is that it is perceived by most as a kit car and a lesser valuable derivative of the 2 seater. Therefore it will never be held in great esteem by the majority. (And therefore by the dealers who drive the prices)

Consider an EType. If the venerable XK was sustituted by a modern(ish) 90's Jaguar engine it would ruin its value. Same for say a Healey 3000. Even a Triumph Stag.

Yet it doesn't happen with a +2. A Zetec kit car is as "valuable" as a real Lotus. Despite having virtually no common mechanics. I doubt the same would apply to a genuine Sprint. Most dealers would be reluctant to touch a +2, not so a DHC Sprint. 'Cos that is flavour of the month. Although not so keen on a virtually identical S4 DHC.

As I said - not much logic.

Worse car I've owned (against some serious competition) was probably an Escort 1300 E. A vehicle who'se crudity was only exceeded by it's pretention. Yet apparently worth a fair bit these days!!

I had a nice little MG1300 (ado16) at the same time. Closely followed by a sweet Dolomite 1850. Both immesurably superior - yet some would go goggly eyed at the ESCart. (I also owned an Escart 1300 Estate - that handled better than the saloon and was definitely more directionally stable.)

Funny old world.

[Donels]

For the UK Paul Matty seems to set the market value for most Lotus'. He is the go to guru and others seem to follow what he says. He told me that +2s for restoration are getting scarce and the price is now £10k minimum, but he was trying to sell me a car! He did have a fully restored JPS +2 with an Option 1 paint job at £33500, so that would appear to be the top price for a +2, or it was 2 years ago.

The answer to the original post would seem to be to buy Paul a few beers and convince him +2s are under valued!

[DJW]

As mentioned by others, a car is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay at that point in time.

When an Escort Mexico is worth more than a Lotus you know it’s a fickle market

Market is dire at the mo for modern cars. My old Exige 380 is still for sale after 10 months ! End of last year I had to take a bath on my AMG to get out. Very hard to value cars at the mo in my humble opinion.

[Elanintheforest]

It is hard to understand, with logic, the crazy prices now being achieved by Escorts and Cortinas, although as I have some of each, I really don't mind too much. My Elan and Mexico had a strange relationship which many of you will not believe, but it is true. I had to separate them as, overnight, the Elan would roll forward and come to rest on the Mex. I checked the floor levels, and they were perfectly flat, but it kept on happening. I concluded that the Elan was a bit of a tart, but if Elans like them, there must be something more appealing about the cars than logic alone would have us believe

[types26/36]

. I had to separate them as, overnight, the Elan would roll forward and come to rest on the Mex.

I believe you .....Elan handbrakes are not the best..

[DJW]

It is hard to understand, with logic, the crazy prices now being achieved by Escorts and Cortinas, although as I have some of each, I really don't mind too much. My Elan and Mexico had a strange relationship which many of you will not believe, but it is true. I had to separate them as, overnight, the Elan would roll forward and come to rest on the Mex. I checked the floor levels, and they were perfectly flat, but it kept on happening. I concluded that the Elan was a bit of a tart, but if Elans like them, there must be something more appealing about the cars than logic alone would have us believe

Must admit that is one special Mexico when you kindly showed me around your collection.

[h20hamelan]

If I were a white Élan, I would lust after that colour too, maybe some would rub off. And the other obvious birthmarks affecting metal cars.

[JonB]

I would have thought a Mk 1 Escort was more sought after because more people actually owned them when they were current - this sentiment being driven by nostalgia. Lotuses were out of the price range of most, especially the +2.

[DJW]

A fair point, as I was one of those 17 years old, test passed who wanted one badly. Couldn’t find a decent one at the time so bought a Scirocco Storm instead

Sorry taking this thread off topic