Plus 2 Eyeball Air Vents

[Chancer]

As the thread has now turned to Ford Pubics

What was the Ford rationale in those days for having what seems to me in hindsight competitive offerings in their own range, not once but twice both times them being poor sellers compared to the Tincorner.

I am talking about the Ford Classic vs the MK1 Cortina and the Ford Corsair vs the MK2 Cortina, the dates are approximate, they had a good range with the Anglia, Cortina, Zephyr/Zodiac and later on the Escort, Cortina and I've forgotten the name of the big saloon with the V4 and V6 lumps preceeding the Consul/Granada.

Where was the Classic and the Corsair supposed to fit in, were they competitors to other makes that would bring Ford business or just take sales away from the Cortina? Were they percieved as more up-market than the Cortinas?

Had the Consul Capri been launched without the Classic I could see the rationale as the later Capri definitely was a big success bringing new customers to ford but the Consul Capri was probably a few years ahead of its time.

[RichC]

Ford executive....

[Elanintheforest]

The existence of the Classic and the Corsair seems very odd given how similar they were to the Cortina under the skin. The Classic came first, and that was greatly influenced by Ford America input, where they knew best what the Brits waned to buy. It was a complete flop, and only lasted just 2 years with 100,000 cars built. The Cortina came along in 1962 and that was an all Ford UK design, and sold like hot cakes. Over 1 million of the Mk1 cars sold between late 1962 and mid 1966.

The Corsair was launched in 1963, a year after the Cortina, and was produced until the end of Cortina Mk2 production in 1970. But only just over 300,000 cars were sold, against the Mk1 and Mk2 Cortina total production of well over 2 million cars! Not sure where it fitted in, as it was priced just a tad above the Cortina, but the American styling influence was pretty obvious (mini-Thunderbird) and it may have been used in Europe to counter the Ford Taunus made in Germany....Ford UK's biggest rivals, well, from an internal perspective.

3 really interesting Corsairs were built. One had a Twincam installed at Cheshunt for Harley Copp, an American Ford design guy working at Dagenham. Harley went on to head the detailed design for the GT40, and the Cosworth DFV engine, so knew his stuff!

Two were built at Ford's competition department to enter the Spa Sofia Liege rally in 1964, both with Twincams. Finished in Ford's rally colour of Monaco Red, they looked gorgeous!

[Chancer]

Ford executive....

Yes I did remember that but wasn't there a lower specced model called the Zephyr MK4 or something? I worked on a few of them and they were huge lumbering beasts, at least with the Granada it was quick and (relatively)nimble.

ElanForestMan.

Good point re the European market.

My memories of the Consul Classic and Consul Capri were that they were very over-engineered compared to the Tincorner,heavier panels, double bonnet lock, lots of things really that added to the cost but didn't bring sales was the Corsair also like that? I dont think I ever drove or worked on one.

Funnily enough I saw a Ford Pubic on an episode of the persuaders last night and just like seeing a MK2 Jag in the Sweeney I knew that it was going to be wrecked, and it was

[Orsom Weels]

Not wishing to hijack the thread, but to give something of a brief explanation as I see it.

The Classic was a larger & more upmarket car than the Cortina, aimed at a different market sector, it also arrived somewhat later than intended, it was supposed to be in production by 1959, along with the Anglia, but when that went on sale in 59, it was so successful, there was insufficient production capacity at Dagenham to cope with the Classic range & Halewood wasn't on line until 1963, so it was 1961 before the Classic & Capri hit the market place. During the development of the Cortina, it became obvious that the Classic was too expensive to produce for its market sector, they were over built, & as the Cortina was seen as a little too downmarket to replace the Classic, a replacement was needed to fit between the Cortina & Zephyr/Zodiac, but without spending vast sums on design & development. Cue the Corsair. It had a partly double skinned version of the Cortina floorpan, lengthened by 3 inches just in front of the rear wheelarches. Longer front and rear sections completed the lengthening. That gave the Corsair an overall length of 14 feet 9 inches, in comparism to the Cortina with 14 feet 2 inches. The front windscreen and pillar section, and the slightly lengthened inner wings were identical with the Cortina, as was most of the mechanical side. The roof and upper door sections were very similar to the Cortina, so the Corsair is very much a Cortina in a different set of clothes. None were meant to compete against the other, but were aimed at different perceived market sectors.
My Dad had a 1340cc Classic & always said it was the best car he ever owned, he certainly covered some miles in it, using it to commute from Norfolk to London through the 60's & early 70's. It was also the first car I ever drove
As for the Corsair, despite it's Cortina underpinnings, I always feel it's a much nicer car to drive & be in. It gives a much nicer ride & feels that bit more solid, things like the way the doors glide shut & give that reassuring clunk & the general feel of the build quality, particularly in 2000E form. I don't know whether it's down to the design updates or whether they just did build em better at Hailwood I've always had a hankering to build a replica of the Monaco red twincam rally cars

[vincereynard]

As for the Corsair, despite it's Cortina underpinnings, I always feel it's a much nicer car to drive & be in. It gives a much nicer ride & feels that bit more solid, things like the way the doors glide shut & give that reassuring clunk & the general feel of the build quality, particularly in 2000E form.

Spot on! Hence my mention of it being the best of the 60's Fords. I drove dozens and the Cortina just felt light and flimsy after a Corsair. Mind you it was considerably heavier, if I recall nearly 100Kgs??
And the steering was lower geared which did not help in the nimble stakes.

Didn't they also have radius arms on the rear axle? The only Ford to have a touch of such sophistication?
It was probable intended to counter the Triumph / Rover 2000 as a car on another level to the Cortina.

[Orsom Weels]

Sorry Vince, missed your earlier post, but yes I would tend to agree, the Corsair was probably the best thing Ford had in their range at the time, at least in the UK market. They are still a lovely car to drive, & can hold their own in modern traffic better than many things from the 60's
An interesting little 'anorak' fact about the door handles, did you know the 2000E has handles unique to it & no other Corsair model? All the others had the chrome waist trim which blended into the door handles, as the 2000E doesn't have this trim, handles without the trim tails had to be designed & manufactured.
All the 'sportier' models had the radius arms, but the lower range basic models had to do without them, they were pure MK1 Cortina rear suspension.
The 2000E was indeed aimed squarely at the Rover & Triumph 2000's, & the Humber Sceptre. It was able to undercut all 3 on price & only the Triumph could just edge it on top speed.
I often feel the Corsair is the +2 of the ford stable, one of their best offerings, but strangely under valued.

Regards, Tim

[Chancer]

Thankyou all for your explanations and I apologise for the thread drift.

It all makes sense now, the Classic definitely being the big brother to the Anglia.

Corsairs must be quite rare now, do the values reflect that?

[Robbie693]

Maybe this is a good point to mention another opportunity to watch Ford's Dagenham Dream is available for a few weeks:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00j0gnm/fords-dagenham-dream

Still wincing from seeing the Lotus Cortina in the scrappy!

[bill griffiths]

Watsisname's and others photos are most helpful.
I inherited the heavy diecast chrome rings, and I have now obtained the balls
by disecting vents from a mk2 Cortina.
The rear tubes can be fabricated, although I have so far found one from the carefully sifted incinerated
remains of my previous early Plus 2 (of 39 years ownership!)
Really all that remains now is to find or fabricate the plastic rings which appear to clip in to the
front face of the diecast rings. Apart from anything else it hides the rough casting marks.
Many thanks, Bill

[wotsisname]

Hi Bill, the trim rings on mine are metal... Although not sure it matters. I will see if I have a photo when it was fully apart.

[Orsom Weels]

Hi Bill, the trim rings on mine are metal...

As are mine. If you are unable to find or make the rest of what you need, I may be able to help you out. I'm trying to buy a replacement crash pad/dash surround for my Corsair, but the guy wants to sell the whole dash assembly, complete with the correct vents that you need. If they may be of use to you, let me know.

Regards, Tim

[mikealdren]

Lots of parts were standard across the motor industry in the 1960s so it's quite possible that they were used by both Ford and Rootes.

[jeff jackson]

Hi all,
I have a "Club Lotus bulletin" - a list of comparative parts for a Lotus Elan +2 1966 - 1974.
It is Yonks old and I propably got it when I got my first Plus 2 in 1981.
I will scan it and post here on the forum.
Not only does it list the eyeball vents as being Hillman Hunter (around 1965) it lists loads of other stuff too.

However, knowing Lotus as I do, I reckon they used whatever they could get hold of at the time, like the Weber or D'ellortos issue.
So maybe the real answer is either the eyeball vents are the same on Fords and Rootes, or Lotus used whatever they could at the time.
I'm sitting on the fence. I don't have a Hillman Hunter or Cortina to confirm one way or the other.
(I did have a very nice 1600E that I sold to buy the elan though....)

Kind regards
Jeff 72+2

[bill griffiths]

Thanks, Tim.
If available I would purchase from you both vents. What I particularly need is the metal rings which
fit in the inside of the outer face of the diecast chrome ring and surround the ball itself.
I am happy to buy the entirety of both vents however and hold what may be surplus for others in need since
I do not plan that the replacement will ever catch fire!
And I look forward to Jeff publishing the bulletin.
Regards and thanks,
Bill