New member looking for advice

[Elanconvert]

hi guy ....welcome to the forum....

have you seen this one?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LOTUS-2-2S-/1 ... Swy5ZXCRMM

fred

[GuyC]

Hi Fred,

Yes I have seen that one and it looks like the sort of car I'd be after! My current issue is I still have my Elise which I need to sell first if I want to buy from a private seller. If I buy from a dealer I can at least try to p/x with them if the right one comes up before I sell.

Cheers, Guy

[tvacc]

Hi,
Just a few thoughts from across the pond. Plus 2s have not really seen the rise over here that they have in the UK. If you can live with LHD, you can get a heck of a Plus 2 over here for 20K USD and then add 2K for shipping to the UK. Also, if you search for a RHD Plus 2 over here chances are you will get a great deal as RHD cars here do seem to sell for less than LHD.

Just some thoughts.

Tony V

[Tournesol]

Hi Guy,

Welcome and good luck with your search.

There are many experts here and all very friendly and helpful. I am fairly new to Elan+2 ownership myself. My car is from 1968, number 0700. Work I have had done so far:
- New subframe, bushes, brakes etc...
- New suspensions
- Replaced Dynamo
- Head is currently being refurbished with new valves, seats, guides etc....

When I bought the car my budget didn't allow me to buy a neat example and I knew I would have some expenditures, including a new subframe eventually (even if I hoped it wouldn't be so soon). My intention was to restore a car at the same time as using it. Since, I've been lucky enough to get into some cash and get the jobs above done. In a way I prefer it that way as I know who did what and how. With your budget in mind I think it's slightly different as it should allow you to find a pretty decent example but make sure you ask of advice here before committing to anything.

I did about 7K last year and have enjoyed every single mile!! It's a brilliant car if you like your driving but I think we all know that!!

Being in South East London I might not be too far from you so if you wish to come and get a look at the car you are most welcome, as soon as its is back with its refurbished head. Should be ready by next week.

It is not a concours example and will never be as I intend to use it on every occasion I have (and that is most week ends) but it's presentable (in my opinion anyway). Few pictures attached.

Enjoy the search and you will enjoy the driving even more!

[GuyC]

Hi Tournesol, thanks for the info and the car looks great, I really like that colour scheme! Do you mind if I ask what you paid for it and what you've spent so far? Just wondering if rolling resto could be another way to go...

Also I may take you up on that offer regarding coming to see it!

Tony, that sounds like a good idea, my Dad has bought a few restoration projects from the US and the bodywork on them have been really good. I would look for a RHD version and will keep my eye out (ebay.com?), any idea what differences there are between US and UK spec cars apart from steering position? I did see a US one for sale with air con which I guess you don't see over here.

If you happen to see one please let me know!

Cheers, Guy

[vincereynard]

If a rolling restoration would appeal I would not necessarily discount the
http://www.crossroads-garage.co.uk/lotu ... re-5270243

Being late '68 it could be a crossover +2 / +2S car. Spot light recesses / bonnet lump / remote boot release.
Later body with an earlier interior. One thing you will learn about early Lotus is little is firm fact!

https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/ shows it has done about 80 miles in 2 years.

http://handh.co.uk/UserFiles/pdf/404871 ... Elan+2.pdf shows it failing to sell at auction in Dec 2015 from where the vendors presumably bought it for an advantageous price.

I have had a hoot to a salesman who maintains that the boss is a big time +2 fan who has 6. I asked about possible front damage and he maintains that there is no sign of any. He maintains it is actually a good solid car - then again he would do! He might be up for a deal?

The front wheel arch looks strange.

Vince

[Sea Ranch]

I did see a US one for sale with air con which I guess you don't see over here.

If you mean this one, below, I don't see any evidence of A/C; just evidence of a dealer who doesn't know the cars and uses stock boilerplate text in his advertising . . .

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lotus-Elan-Coup ... 2087052660

Besides which, it looks like - front the front underside pic - it hasn't had any maintenance/refurb/parts replacement since new.

Regards,

Randy

[prezoom]

I think I would be worried about the serious air leak, with regards to the carburetors.

[roblotus79]

I think that vendor usually has seriously scruffy examples. I think that one is way over priced.

There is this one which is a bit of a resto mod, but could be returned to stock. It is in our club and local. I've not seen it in person.

http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/nvn/cto/5493362547.html

[Rich135]

Hi Guy

It's funny to read your post, as I am in the exact same position! I also live in the South East (Surrey) and am currently looking for an interesting classic for around ?15k (plus a bit more if I can persuade the wife!). I have previously had and Elise S1 sport135 and a 911 3.2 Carerra supersport, so need something interesting in my life again. Is your Elise and S2?

I think we are on the brink with our budget for a plus 2, and ?15k will probably only find scruffier examples, or potentially a slightly less "original" car from a private seller.

If you don't mind, I will keep track of this thread as well, to keep me informed, but we just need to make sure we aren't bidding against each other on the same car! ha ha.

Good luck with the search.

Rich

[denicholls2]

Opinions on the car in the ad are going to be based on two camps: This list has a high proportion, particularly in the UK, of restoration-focused owners. This group values originality.

In the U.S., originality is less important for the most part and people look for the things that need to be right and cost a lot to make right. These would be missing bits that don't have available replacements, the engine, and top of the list is body and paintwork which is quite expensive on a fiberglass car.

The paintwork on your example looks fine enough for what you're looking for, so the questions I'd ponder would be:
- Any items requiring you to mess up that paint. Sill work may or may not qualify depending on the extent of rust.
- I'd investigate the nose where it was bonded on to make sure it was done well and aligned properly. Problems will show up on the top of the fender lines.
- Look for signs of chassis damage, but most likely the galvanised chassis was replaced after the shunt that caused the new nose and all is well underneath.
- How's it run?

Although the car in the ad is probably a bitsa, so are most surviving examples. Not a reason to shun this one unless you're a purist or going to become one, but a good reason to find an experienced second opinion to give close scrutiny.

Only a few years ago, an example like this would have been less than the current price in dollars.

My Europa is not nearly in as nice cosmetic condition. It has a '100-foot' amateur paint job with some runs and bubbles but no stress cracks, a strong engine with no current issues, an original chassis in good condition, and the original engine is in my basement. I value the car currently at about the cost of the new paint it needs and my insurer agrees. If I had it done professionally, the car's value would likely rise by about 1/3 the cost of the paint. Which is the Europa owner's quandary.

All in all, I would value 'pretty' over original for a driver. The engine is expensive to fix but fixable unless trashed.

The yellow Vancouver car looks nice, but the Stromberg head offers a serious reduction in value compared to Webers. Likely more serious overall than originality issues you might not even care much about, and since it was likely a Stromberg originally, a purist would be compelled to keep it as one.

[GuyC]

Hi Vince,
Thanks for the internet sleuthing! I hadn?t thought to check MOT history or previous auctions on it. With that few miles on it I guess it?s been hanging around the various traders for a while now. I?ll see how I get on with selling the Elise or what the dealer could do in p/x but if I did go and see it I would definitely plan to take someone who really knows what they?re looking at.

Rich,
Yes, my Elise is an S2, the advert for it is here: http://classifieds.seloc.org/ads/2001-lotus-elise-series-2-k-series/
Agree, I think it will be this year or never at our budgets! Have you got any specific models or requirements? I?m sure something will come up for both of us. Likewise, good luck with your search!

Denicholls,
British classics have been climbing very quickly in value and I think the owner mindset has been changing to keep things as per original spec (certainly with the other models I?ve owned and have been following).
With regards to bodywork, do sills normally get replaced at the same time as the chassis? Unless anyone knows for sure, I think I need a very good look over / under the car to establish if any frontal damage has happened which a few suspect. Although, with the image Vince highlighted I think it looks like it?s taken just slightly forward of adjacent to the car, making the wheel seem more forward in the arch than normal like this?.

?Or that could be my wishful thinking!
I do have a little bit of a purist mind-set, but that?s something I do not have the luxury to afford and I would certainly prefer to buy on condition. I guess I can return it to original during my ownership if I?m that bothered anyway.

To everyone, really appreciating all the advice and things to look out for, you?ve not put me off yet

[denicholls2]

The front wheel arch looks strange.

Yes, it does. But so do most of the Plus 2's with a full profile picture available in Google Images, so it's not unique to this car. The profile shots that don't look like this are the scarce ones. But they exist.

A new nose bonded at a downward angle or a too-short cut would be explanations, but why so many? Were there two basic nose treatments from stock, as in the 54 vs. 65 Europas? (Headlight height for Federal standards was the reason for the uglier Type 65). Or do most of the posted profile pics have new noses?

[JohnP]

Good luck Guy.
I joined the Lotus fold with an S1 Elise many years ago and still have it nearly 200000 miles later.
Decided to add a plus 2 to the headache last year and I am really happy with the one I ended up with, but I would say that I looked at a load of cars, and had several inspected on the ramp and rejected by our local experts. Unless you really know what you are looking at my strong advice is, as well as taking all the great advice from this and other threads, once you have shortlisted one yourself, get somebody who really knows what they are doing to look at it too. Applies especially of course if you are looking at the higher end of the price bracket.
John

[Mick6186]

The photo of the red car looks to have been taken from fairly square on to the side, the front wheel arch looks very wrong and the wheel is too far forward. If the car has been in an accident it hasn't been repaired properly,
Mick