Greatest Ever Drivers' Cars

[trw99]

Back in December 2010 (UK) Classic & Sports Car magazine issued a supplement under the above heading.

I know, such lists are always, ultimately, subjective, but then that is why we like our Elans; we often can not adequately describe our emotions and feelings when it comes to driving our cars, we just know they are right for us.

Having said that, I felt when I first read this supplement 14 years ago that they had a very good go at covering most of the bases. Of course, I was delighted to see the Elan make the top five, out of a Top 25 listing.

Below I have reproduced the salient pages for your enjoyment!

Tim

[shynsy]

Nice,
Over the past few years I have been "sampling" other "sports" cars from the same era. In some cases buying and restoring them and sometimes driving friends cars. In an odd quirk I have owned mainly cars built in 1972 so real contemporaries and as I have rebuilt each I also know that I have been driving them in near original spec.
These have included, Lotus Elan +2S130 (and now a Lotus Elan +2S130/5), Triumph Spitfire 1500 and 1300 Mk IV, MG Midget (with 1275 A series), Triumph TR6, Morgan 4/4, Triumph stag. My reflections are that the 2 big differences clear:

First, the elan is that it has the highest level of chassis rigidity and by far the best suspension. Drive any of the triumph separate chassis offerings (as well as the Morgan) and it is clear the whole car twists on corners and on bumpy roads. In the spit and TR6 you can feel the door gaps closing up over bumps (even with a brand new chassis). Interesting the Midget is the closest to the elan in terms of rigidity (undoubtably because it is a unitary chassis). This increase in regidity certainly enhances the handling with the elan seeming to be a lot easier to drive fast. The TR6 isn't actially too bad but it is a heavy lump to get around corners. The Spit is a bit like driving a blancmange and with a swing axle rear end can be quite a challenge on bumpy corners. The Midget suffers from the live back axle and in standard form is quite unpredictable. Adding better rear end location (Panhard rod etc) does help a lot but it is still a lot less composed on a rough road. All this is also improved by the more advanced suspension design on the elan. The TR6 has all independent, and perhaps this helps it be a more predictable ride compared to the Spit. The Stag (I know more GT than sportcar) has the unitary construction so better than the seperate chassis triumphs but it is set up to be wallowy. It has, however, one of the best rides of any car we have had, even my 80 yo mum commented!. Interestingly though, somehow the Elan ride comes closer to the Stag than any of the others and it handles better than the others (a real Colin Chapman trick!)

The second difference is the engine. in this case it is a little more horses for courses in my opinion. The Twinc is a lovely zingy engine. The triumph engine is much less powerfull (obviously) and even when tuned with twin webers and a nice cam is peaky and a bit agricultural. The A-series in the midget has a lot of racing heritage and can definitely be made to "sing" and put out a lot of power (See the A40s and minis racing at goodwood) but it does feel like you are stressing them out a fair bit. Interestingly I ran the Midget with a modern 1.8 K series puting out 160BHP for a while and that was probably the closest to having a cheap elan. But the power it had combined with the suspension was perhaps not the safest! The triumph 6, again is far from a racing engine, I have run them carbed, PI and also supercharged. They are what they are. Pretty much indistructable so long as you keep an eye on thrust washers, low reving and reasonable torquey. They do make the TR a good long distance car (we have twice driven them 2000 miles in 2 days and also done the 10 countries rally, in the former the TR drove up the gross glokner pass in 4th and OD 4th (it did have a supercharger!)) which is something people don't consider. The stag, the triumph engine is fancy, but seems underpowered for the car, but what a noise.. I currently have a 3.9L Rover V8 in the stag and that is just lovely oddles of torque, it can pick up "its skirts" and fly and with the Rover engine is doing 0-60 in 7-8 seconds, but you do have to change gear at <4000 rpm.

Just my observations..
tim

[alan.barker]

Hi Tim,
A pity but you have missed in your text another make which i have 2 the TVRs.
I have a 1978 3000S and 1976 3000M .
Have you driven one and what do you think.
Alan
P.s. have a look at "Classic and Sportscar" May 2017 "1970s Best Buys". 10 great sportscars tested. The Winner was TVR 3000S

[JonB]

A very interesting read, thanks all!

I've had a Plus 2 S130/5 and I'm now restoring an S4. Never been in an Elan apart from the Plus 2 so I don't know what to expect from the S4, but if the Plus 2 was anything to go by, it will be special. My view was it handled well but you could feel the weight in the bends. That said, I didn't put new shock absorbers on it so I will never know how much it could have been improved by. The S4 is a different proposition and will have all new suspension. It has Strombergs but I am not concerned. As an S/E it's got a high compression head and Sprint cams, so it'll fly. Plus, I can swap out the Strommies for Mikunis easily enough...

I've always wondered how the rear engined 924 could be so highly regarded as a driver's car. The engine at the rear screams "imbalance" to me. I think it must be very tail happy, like a pendulum in the bends, but again, never been in one.

[alan.barker]

Hi Jon,
You will find the Elan more delicate than a +2 in corners, just my personal view.
Fot a Porsche i think the 928 better.
Jon you say the 924 has a rear Engine, that's new to me i thought it was the first Porsche with front Engine.
Alan

[smo17003]

So back then you could buy two Mini Cooper's for the price of a Sprint !
How things have changed.

[trw99]

[quote="alan.barker"]Hi Tim,
A pity but you have missed in your text another make which i have 2 the TVRs.
I have a 1978 3000S and 1976 3000M .
Have you driven one and what do you think.
Alan
P.s. have a look at "Classic and Sportscar" May 2017 "1970s Best Buys". 10 great sportscars tested. The Winner was TVR 3000S[/quote]

Ah, Alan, you've fallen into the trap!

I did presage my post with the fact that these things are entirely subjective and I admire your spirit in sticking up for and advancing the cause of the TVR. I should also add that I did not miss anything, it was the writers of the article you need to harangue.

If you recall, the editorial page makes it clear what their definition was and who they asked for opinions from. In fact, on the very last page of the cover, which I attach below, is a list of all those folk and what their top three cars were. Having had a quick whip through it, I could not find one who included the Blackpool flyers in their top three.

The Elan gets 15 mentions!

Yes, I have driven a couple of TVRs, a 3000M being one of them and there was a time back in the 1970s when I considered buying one. However, they did not gel with me in the same way that the Elan always has.

Tim

[alan.barker]

Hi Tim,
Thanks nothing like a good chat .
I'm not pushing for either Lotus or TVR.
The truth is i like all sportscars from a 3 wheel morgan to a Mclaren.
The only car i have had a long way in the past that i sometimes miss was a 1964 1071cc Austin Cooper S. Absolutely amazing but my personal tastes.
My first car with Lotus engine was 1968 Cortina Twincam bought in 1973.
I bought my first TVR in 2008 a S series1990 2.9cc S3.
Since then always Lotus and TVR at the same time a mixed Ecurie.
They all have different quirks.
Might try a Z3 next.
Cheers
Alan

[shynsy]

A TVR I've never sampled but was an option when I bought my latest +2. Exactly as you said.. a 3000S but the finish of a plus 2 looks a little less kit car so that swayed it.. and the fact that I had unfinished business from my last +2.
I was also slightly put off by a friend who had one who said they lacked a progressive feel on the limit. He had had a very nasty accident in one which led to a fatality.
Not statistically representative I know. But hard to forget.
Tim

[mark030358]

A VVC engined K series Elise is hard to beat….

[alan.barker]

A Honda S2000 is not too bad but too many have been thrashed on the Track with lots of drifting.
I looked to buy one but all that i found had been badly used, high mileage, too expensive
Alan

[2cams70]

I’m really enjoying my current 2022 Ford Fiesta ST company car. So much so I’ve decided to purchase it once the company lease expires. The 3 cylinder engine is amazing (sounds great with excellent fuel economy and performance). The chassis is very playful, progressive and forgiving (if you wish to make it behave that way) or very grippy and quick (if you wish to make it behave it that way). As a daily though the ride takes a bit of enduring and tyre replacement and rim repair costs are excessive. It can’t handle potholes and tyres only last 25 - 30K km. Last of the true ICE driver’s cars before EV’s and a good toy to keep. I’ve done a hard driven 110,000km in mine in 2 years with complete reliability (except for wheels and tyres). Next daily chariot will be a Kia Picanto manual (I like basic no frills cars with manual transmission as dailies. The Fiesta was an exception).

[alan.barker]

A TVR I've never sampled but was an option when I bought my latest +2. Exactly as you said.. a 3000S but the finish of a plus 2 looks a little less kit car so that swayed it.. and the fact that I had unfinished business from my last +2.
I was also slightly put off by a friend who had one who said they lacked a progressive feel on the limit. He had had a very nasty accident in one which led to a fatality.
Not statistically representative I know. But hard to forget.
Tim

Here's a +2S someone i know in bad shape too

[JonB]

Hi Jon,
Jon you say the 924 has a rear Engine, that's new to me i thought it was the first Porsche with front Engine.
Alan

Quite right Alan, I meant 911 but was asleep at the wheel so to speak.

[alan.barker]

bonjour Jonb,
nice to know you've woken up.
While your awake could you tell us how your Baby S4 is coming along. Can she walk yet or burble.
Alan