Lotus Elan

DVLA Call for evidence registering classic cars

PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri May 10, 2024 11:44 am

I came across this yesterday on a UK government website.

https://www.gov.uk/government/calls-for-evidence/registering-historic-classic-rebuilt-vehicles-and-vehicles-converted-to-electric-call-for-evidence/registering-historic-classic-rebuilt-vehicles-and-vehicles-converted-to-electric

I think it’s important for all of us to respond if we can. There are some very interesting points raised especially regarding future proofing classics and conversion to electric.

The current regulations go back to the 1980’s and are well overdue an overhaul.
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PostPost by: p.faurie » Fri May 10, 2024 4:22 pm

Don’t tell them pike :D
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PostPost by: berni29 » Fri May 10, 2024 8:18 pm

Hi

I am sure there are very few "classics" over 40 years old that have not had any modifications to either chassis or bodies. They say:

A vehicle can only retain its registration number where there have been no alterations made to the original chassis or monocoque bodyshell. Any modifications made to the chassis or monocoque bodyshell currently requires the vehicle to be re-registered with a Q registration number.

To my mind this means any rust repair or a single (non original) hole drilled and its a "Q" plate essentially. If you tell the DVLA that is. I wonder if this applies to modern cars? So if you drill a hole to route an accessory wire for instance?

Does not make a lot of sense, so its good that there is a consultation process underway.

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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Fri May 10, 2024 10:08 pm

does a Q plate give you less expensive insurance, and still agreed value?
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PostPost by: berni29 » Fri May 10, 2024 10:33 pm

Hi

I cannot answer that but my uninformed opinion would be more expensive to insure as the car would no longer be a historic vehicle (although give it 40 years from the date of the q plate and it will be), and worth less for the same reason.

Berni
Zetec+ 2 under const, also 130S. And another 130S for complete restoration. Previously Racing green +2s with green tints. Yellow +2 and a couple of others, all missed. Great to be back 04/11/2021 although its all starting to get a bit out of control.
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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Sat May 11, 2024 12:51 am

Here, in Canuckleland BC. You could pull the less expensive insurance from the ‘Road tax’ governing body. Then get aftermarket agreed. So a win win.
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PostPost by: miked » Sat May 11, 2024 12:33 pm

Like the man says. :lol:
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Sat May 11, 2024 12:58 pm

Mike,
I think you are missing the point. The DVLA are asking for input regarding the current regulations and how best to alter them going forwards with a view to future proofing classic vehicles. Electric conversions are not covered at present and there is the age old "is it or isn't it a chassis" debate (don't tell em!). Replacement engines, gearboxes, brakes, we would like to choose wouldn't we?





Go on...... tell em what you think!
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PostPost by: miked » Sun May 12, 2024 7:46 pm

To be honest Alan I had not studied it at all. Just thinking of the debate, as you say.
I got weary of the originality police.
Would be nice to have input to people who would intelligently use it. :D
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PostPost by: greg40green » Tue May 14, 2024 10:26 pm

Genuine question.
Hypothetically speaking .
I run an Elan with a modified / none standard chassis , tall block TC , Ford 5 speed gearbox, TTR modifications etc , etc .
I inform my insurance of the changes to my Elan for insurance purposes.
I'm involved in a serious accident whilst driving the Elan that results in an enquiry ie someone's died.
The police are involved in scrutinising my Elan and note that its none standard and question the validity of my classic vehicle status.
Question .
Could this happen or am I over egging my concerns ?
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Wed May 15, 2024 6:19 am

It has nothing to do with the classic status of your vehicle and everything to do with the safety of your vehicle. It is your responsibility to ensure that your vehicle is in a safe roadworthy condition. A police investigation would look for failure of safety items such as brakes and lights.

Removing the need for an MOT for 40+ year old vehicles is a questionable item. Get your car MOTd cover yourself that you have done due diligence.
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PostPost by: JonB » Wed May 15, 2024 7:56 am

Spyder fan wrote:It has nothing to do with the classic status of your vehicle and everything to do with the safety of your vehicle.


If that is the case, I would expect the consultation to be conducted by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA).

(A note to overseas readers - DVSA is the UK government department that oversees the annual roadworthiness test required for any car over three years in the UK. The test is called an MOT.)
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PostPost by: greg40green » Wed May 15, 2024 8:09 am

Thanks Alan as this can be a real tentative subject on this site and possibly on a number of other club sites
I'm in total agreement with you regards not having to MOT classic cars any more ie , outside the Lotus fraternity I'm personally aware of classic car owners ( private owners not dealers ) who are putting classic cars back on the road after many years sat in a garage, then selling them on the basis that the cars don't require an MOT .

Regards the safety issue you mention.
Again hypothetically speaking .
My Elan is safe ie , all work completed by a qualified mechanic , bills to prove etc.
I'm running bigger brakes to cope with the increased power of my Cosworth turbo charged Elan etc.
I'm involved in the same accident where someone is killed and theres an investigation .
Surely theres a point when 'a department' steps in and questions the classic status of my vehicle.
Its okay to keep saying 'Don't inform DVLA of modification' ( I'm definitely NOT including informing DVLA of a chassis change as this point has been cleared up legally by Graham Arnold / Lotus them selves some years ago) , but there must come a legal point when the owner of a classic car crosses a line of no return and in a court of law the owner of that classic car becomes legally responsible for not disclosing the status of their vehicle ,
Apologies Alan for laying these questions at your door, but this being a very tentative subject and not wishing to open up old hot debates. 99% of Lotus owners are looking for guidance without upsetting anyone.
Lotus owners have invested time and money in their cars and want to stay the right side of the law especially in the event of an accident and when we live in an environment of where theres a blame theres a claim .
Thanks for you input Alan
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PostPost by: shynsy » Wed May 15, 2024 8:26 am

Totally agree with everyone thinking the removal of MoT requirement for classics is a retrograde step. Although I service my car regularly it us good to get and independent eye over it. But isn't it also true that you loose your exemption if you swap your engine to a non-standard type post some date cutoff. I put a k series into my 1970 midget and had to have it MoTd. In someway its a bit of a moot point for cars that are bought with a different engine and bot evidence of when the conversion was done. For examples it was common in the era to swap rover V8s into stags.
Just a lot of cans of worms.
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Current Cars: '72 Elan +2S130/5, '72 Triumph Stag 3.9L, '72 Spitifire Mk IV. Past Cars: '72 Triumph TR6 (supercharged), '70 MG Midget (K-Series + Type 9), '76 Triumph 2500TC, '72 Lotus Elan +2S130/4, '76 Triumph Spitfire 1500.
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Wed May 15, 2024 12:09 pm

Greg,
At the moment the best advice that I would give is to have a yearly MOT check, this will demonstrate that due diligence is being taken as regards roadworthiness.

I’m not qualified to answer the question on what’s acceptable as far as maintaining a classic vehicle with regards to using non original specification parts whilst retaining original identity and registration status.


The consultation is designed to highlight these concerns and hopefully will go some way towards addressing them.
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