can a leopard change its spots

[ragtop]

Hi recently bought a plus 2 (unseen) ,the cost was top dollar but the car was not, had all sorts of problems from day 1 mainly paintwork,but now gearbox. under UK law you have a statutory warranty of six months,but not sure whether,to let them have the car back to sort the issues out.

[512BB]

I have never had any dealings with them and neither would I, as I believe the answer to your question is no.

I have said it before and I repeat, NEVER buy a car unseen, let alone a Lotus, the very last car you should buy without viewing. I did it once, and would not do it again, as opinions vary WILDLY.

If you have the opportunity via the law to return the car for a full refund, then that is what I would do. I can never understand why people buy a 50 year old classic car from a dealer and pay a dealer price. There are many +2s on the market and many that will come to the market over the next few years. Buy the same car or similar from a private seller, go over it with a fine tooth comb with the seller, and bargain hard.

The only dealer that I would contenance buying a car from would be Paul Matty, but then I never would, as I would not want to pay his premium. After all, you would only be buying a car that he has bought from a private individual, or has on sale or return.

And just to throw it out there, why do people always come here after the event? Why not come here and ask all the questions you need answered before buying?

Leslie

[HCA]

I cannot see a link in your post, so not sure who 'them' might be...There are some with not very good names, so maybe help the community and tell us more?

Broadly I agree with Leslie - so many quirks with the likes of a Lotus, best have a close look at the car. However, I confess to buying my +2 unseen. But is a private seller, an enterprising Polish couple made to feel unwelcome after brexit. Very sad it was, I am still in touch with them back in Poland!

I regularly buy my daily drivers unseen, from Germany where it is very tightly regulated and never fallen foul yet.

If you are unhappy and feel that the problems are beyond your scope, then again, I agree with Leslie, do what you can with the law to help.

[ragtop]

I totally agree with both of you.however a car bought unseen from a dealer ,you have a lot more rights,that is if the dealer is ok. the car is a Plus 2130/5 cabriolet,done by Christopher Neil in 1985 so not a car that comes along on a regular basis, hence the purchase. I can have the car taken back ( 5hr journey) to have the work done.

[HCA]

I might be a bit defensive here as I am loosely contemplating an Esprit V8 they have, with the possibility of buying it unseen and maybe worse, buying it unseen outside Brexitland! I am just not sure if I want an Elan as my therapy project with an Esprit and Evora as drivers...I am just hoping there is someone else interested who can be the excuse to kill my desire

UK Sportscars have been there for a while. They come into a lot of criticism on Lotusforums.com and SELOC. How much is justified is debateable as the anger is generated by few and not many satisfied customers of UKSC are of the 'forum type' so difficult to judge. The moderator in SELOC, who has UKSC as a trade link, asked for submissions of complaints that he could take to them to have sorted out. To his annoyance, very few came in, so he closed it and put it all down to 'gripe'. They mostly sell for clients on a commission basis that opens them up for abuse as many issues are probably hidden from them from the start! I am not sure I would put them into Daley Into Europe Ltd category though.

Whatever is wrong with the car, I am sure they will put right to the minimum standard at least under the law that regulates them.

Again, you do not state the gearbox issue - is it a major one that has been there from day one and not mentioned in sale conditions?

As for paintwork, extremely dodgy ground here - has the paint started to detiorate since you had the car? Or did you miss something in the photos? Was the paintwork described as 'immaculate'? Can the damage/detioration be attributable to you since ownership by a half decent lawyer? Two things here in their defence, UK Sportscars generally publish numerous photos of their cars, so a legal argument is that they gave you every opportunity to see paintwork detail. In the case of the Esprit, whilst the photos do the paint terrfiific justice, they are keen to emphasis that it is a metallic paint on plastic that is 35 years old...

I am afraid that you paid to secure a rarity and the risk was/is that something might bite. It has and I think all you can do is negotiate with them in a businesslike fashion, unless you can show a case where you were ostensibly ripped off... All I can say on the latter, is good luck with that one.

[ragtop]

Well the story goes like this,The car arrived the day before xmas eve in the dark.The next day I inspected the car and found multiple cracks and splits in the paint work by the screen and back wing ,no sign of any re paint and the bonnet was a different shade of yellow, hood cover had been repaired not renewed, there were quite a few other issues ,after xmas I emailed with photos,and agreed the car was to be collected and taken back to be done.due to the weather it was several weeks before i drove the car and could not get 5th gear. another email outlining,other problems,the car driven less than 100miles now parked up waiting collection.,

[billwill]

Hi recently bought a plus 2 (unseen) from these people ,the cost was top dollar but the car was not, had all sorts of problems from day 1 mainly paintwork,but now gearbox. under UK law you have a statutory warranty of six months,but not sure whether,to let them have the car back to sort the issues out.Any one out there had recent dealings with them

You don't appear to have named the Sellers, so how on earth do you expect a relevant reply?

[ragtop]

Thanks for reply bill

[billwill]

The gearbox was advertised as a rebuilt voigts gearbox,only when I looked at the receipts that came with the car,that the Voigts gearbox ,was rebuilt in 1997, 25000 mile ago, but then, was changed for another box in 1985 ,so no voigts gearbox in the car,car still waiting to be picked up

This doesn't make logical sense. 1985 is before 1997.

[john.p.clegg]

Ragtop
If you can PM me a contact number , I'll give you a ring...
( not for publication... )

John

[ragtop]

I agree Bil l,it should have been voigts in 1985 then replaced in in 1997 and was then replaced again in 2004

[Slowtus]

I have only bought two of the many cars I have enjoyed over the decades, sight unseen.

One was a Vtec Mini which was shown VERY well in a professional looking video and any/all questions I asked were answered - when the car got to me it was NOT as represented, not even close, so lesson learned there.

The other sight unseen was a 1991 Lotus 'Elan' M100 - all I had were a couple of photos and the word of the seller (dealer).

The car was perfect in every respect, zero surprises (other than it having been 'chipped' to 200hp - bonus.

The moral of the story? Don't know that there is one other than the obvious and often stated - do not buy sight unseen unless you are 100% certain of the car - and that is an impossibility.

As for remediation under warranty, forget it and move on.

[111Robin]

I have to admit to buying unseen on several occasions due to my geographical location making it very impractical to view every car I have an interest in. I have purchased both privately and from dealers and every time I have been disappointed in one way or another on receiving the car. They just never meet the expectations but I am willing to accept that, it's not that anyone is being dishonest it's just my expectations are probably unrealistic. Each time I've been able to bring the car up to a standard I'm happy with and in a way I'm happier doing this anyway. I have never bought a classic with the intention of just jumping in and driving it, as a minimum I've fully recommissioned perishable items, overhauled brakes and suspension, cleaned the fuel system etc. Dealers just will not spend time and money on a car unless there's a huge margin left in it for them. The Plus 2 I bought recently unseen is a typical example. The previous owner was perfectly happy with it but when I received it I was really surprised how dilapidated it was in general so immediately embarked on a strip down and overhaul. Everyone has different standards, that's the problem. I hope you get this resolved somehow, I've just been through a similar problem having a kitchen fitted, poor workmanship and shirking of responsibility, unfortunately it's more the norm than the exception these days.
PS. I have contacted UK Sportscars previously about a couple of Plus 2s they were advertising but the responses I got never filled me with confidence so I chose to avoid them.

[Hawksfield]

Hi
I cannot understand anyone buying unseen your money is worth the travel to see the condition of the car especially a classic.

Byer beware especially if your blind

[111Robin]

Plenty of people buy unseen, rightly or wrongly, these days, especially since most auctions went online with covid. If I travelled to see every car I had b9ughtvunseen I could have bought another car, sometimes it's just not worth it.