Lotus Elan

Chassis number

PostPost by: Grizzly » Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:01 pm

Spyder fan wrote:
pharriso wrote:I've been watching this train wreck with mild amusement & horror. No need for name calling....

Alan (Thomas) Thanks for posting the Club Lotus Article, but what a load of Bo**ocks!

"That big lump of galvanised metal is not a chassis, it is technically a sub-frame"

Let's look at the definition of a chassis:

SNIP

All the suspension loads are carried by the chassis in an Elan, the engine, transmission, differential are all mounted to it therefore it's a Chassis!

A sub-frame is a sub element that has some of the components bolted to it, like a mini where there are seperate front & rear subframes.



Summary: It's a chassis, but the car's identity is determined by the Vin plate in the engine compartment.


Phil,
I would argue that a Mini has 2 chassis using your reasoning. The engine, gearbox, suspension are all supported on the 2 frames.

I wouldn't go there....... don't forget Monocoques by definition have integrated Chassis, the DVLA go so far as to say bolt-on Subframes are included in a 'Monocoque' as long as they don't meet in the middle.
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:08 pm

Chris,
Please remember that this is a public forum and that it’s not a good idea to imply dishonesty especially of third parties.

You can put whatever spin you want on your crusade to discredit the clear and concise guidance provided by Club Lotus regarding the chassis or frame or however you want to describe it, but it doesn’t change the fact that you can use a Spyder chassis with no issues.

I am perfectly content with my own situation regarding my vehicles both of which have Spyder chassis.

They both have a current MOT and will continue to have them, I think it’s a bad idea to allow exemption from testing regardless of a cars historic status. The yearly Mot acts as a focus to ensure those little jobs like making sure the brakes work get done :roll:
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:12 pm

Spyder fan wrote:Chris,
Please remember that this is a public forum and that it’s not a good idea to imply dishonesty especially of third parties.

You can put whatever spin you want on your crusade to discredit the clear and concise guidance provided by Club Lotus regarding the chassis or frame or however you want to describe it, but it doesn’t change the fact that you can use a Spyder chassis with no issues.

I am perfectly content with my own situation regarding my vehicles both of which have Spyder chassis.

They both have a current MOT and will continue to have them, I think it’s a bad idea to allow exemption from testing regardless of a cars historic status. The yearly Mot acts as a focus to ensure those little jobs like making sure the brakes work get done :roll:

It was you that implied dishonesty, by omission you are being dishonest with the authorities. No??

I'm comparing the DVLA rules and regulations on their website with what i'm being told by Club Lotus and something doesn't aline..... But if it works for you then great.

BTW i agree MOT's being removed was a stupid thing to do but still there are set out guidelines for it.
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PostPost by: elanfan1 » Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:21 pm

I seem to recall a very familiar pedant who wouldn’t accept Elans had a gelcoat. That went on for bloody ages. Here we go again!

Can I suggest that he’s treated as the troll he is and nobody responds all you’re doing is feeding the troll!

Please close the thread.
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PostPost by: englishmaninwales » Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:46 pm

elanfan1 wrote:I seem to recall a very familiar pedant who wouldn’t accept Elans had a gelcoat. That went on for bloody ages. Here we go again!

Can I suggest that he’s treated as the troll he is and nobody responds all you’re doing is feeding the troll!

Please close the thread.


“Pendant…here we go again”, “Can I suggest that he’s treated as the troll…” and “Please close the tread”

Come on, why the personal insults and sulking when someone doesn’t agree with you?

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PostPost by: EPC 394J » Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:29 pm

elanfan1

Can I suggest that he’s treated as the troll he is and nobody responds all you’re doing is feeding the troll!


I agree with englishmaninwales. That sort of comment tends to mean you can’t argue your position with facts, you just don’t like what’s being said. Are you a fan of ‘cancel culture’? If you aren’t interested in the discussion, then the answer, for you is simple?

I work in an industry where many people have opinions, and there are many unofficial so called ‘agreements’ hidden away back in the mists of time. The simple fact is there is only one authority here. That is the DVLA. Their requirements appear to be written in black and white? Any ‘official’ derogation negotiated by Club Lotus will be recorded in the DVLA’s records and could therefor be relied upon. Otherwise they are not official, and are nothing more than rumour or hearsay.

Anyone in doubt should clarify the situation with the DVLA or accept any associated ‘risk’. If indeed they think there is one?
Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life?

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PostPost by: nmauduit » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:54 am

elanfan1 wrote:I seem to recall a very familiar pedant who wouldn’t accept Elans had a gelcoat. That went on for bloody ages. Here we go again!

Can I suggest that he’s treated as the troll he is and nobody responds all you’re doing is feeding the troll!

Please close the thread.


By curiosity I was checking the english equivalent of the local "la paille et la poutre" : apparently it is "the mote and the beam" ...
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PostPost by: englishmaninwales » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:52 am

I had to look that one up :lol:
La parabole de la paille et de la poutre Is a word spoken by Jesus Christ, in his sermon on Mount 1 as reported in the Gospel according to Matthew Mt 7:3-5 The speech is quite brief and begins by warning his disciples of the dangers of judging others, stating that they too would be judged according to the same standard.

(Unashamedly cut and pasted, translated from Google)
Last edited by englishmaninwales on Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: miked » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:56 am

I have tried to stay out of this lately. Written and deleted. Only a simple soul (sole :oops: ) me and not as well read as some of you.

Chris,

Your respose to Alan. Are you advocating all us with Spyder chassiss ring up the DVLA and tell them we are breaking the rules. I am confused. Whatever the rules, there are no big problems with the DVLA and Club Lotus relating to this. This is my understanding. I get the historic precedent club bit and the letter of the law.
Are you not in danger of blowing this so out of proportion and drawing DVLA attention to it by championing your views. Again whatever the rules it is hardly the crime of the century. Same pick up points, stronger, better access etc. It was me that asked Kim to get involded last time about the insurance when this was discussed 3 years ago. Again my simple head says, if my insurance is valid, how is this going to give me/us problems.

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Last edited by miked on Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:41 am

miked wrote:I have tried to stay out of this lately. Written and deleted. Only a simple sole me and not as well read as some of you.

Chris,

Your respose to Alan. Are you advocating all us with Spyder chassiss ring up the DVLA and tell them we are breaking the rules. I am confused. Whatever the rules, there are no big problems with the DVLA and Club Lotus relating to this. This is my understanding. I get the historic precedent club bit and the letter of the law.
Are you not in danger of blowing this so out of proportion and drawing DVLA attention to it by championing your views. Again whatever the rules it is hardly the crime of the century. Same pick up points, stronger, better access etc. It was me that asked Kim to get involded last time about the insurance when this was discussed 3 years ago. Again my simple head says, if my insurance is valid how is this going to give me/us problems.

Mike

No, i am not saying that at all......... That would be a terrible thing to do because you would lose your Club Lotus protection. What i am saying is by the letter of the law you should be fine fitting an OEM design Chassis/subframe with the DVLA (they love OEM stuff, might need an Engineers inspection)........ because nothing has been done in the past to type approve the Spyder chassis/subframe etc you would fall into a massive hurdle which is the first five points of the radical change rules because Miles has carried on having OEM pattern produced. There could be some wiggle room here if Miles isn't making them under license from Lotus though.

In my opinion!! years ago when Lotus first stopped making and selling Chassis someone should have written a letter saying Lotus have stopped manufacturing of replacements making the aftermarket the only way of keeping the car roadworthy. But they didn't!!

This has gone way further than it need be...... i have seen many Chassis and Subframes changed on various different manufacturers cars over the years, it's never been an easy process i grant you but it's only aftermarket items that hit a wall. I don't know if not declaring an Aftermarket Chassis/Subframe will cause problems more than having to keep MOTing your car, but it's a big grey area.
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:51 am

miked wrote: if my insurance is valid how is this going to give me/us problems.

Mike

Insurance isn't a problem...... if you declare something they will be fine with it. The problem is the MOT!! No MOT is instant Insurance void (i read on my policy) so if you run your car under Historic and thus no yearly MOT you need to understand the DVLA point blank say no modifications to the chassis or subframe unless you can provide evidence it was done 30+ years ago.

What I'm saying is if you have a Spaceframe keep MOTing your car to be safe.
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:02 am

Just to add, some policies will cover you driving on the road too and from an MOT station if you have an appointment with no MOT but mine doesn't.
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PostPost by: englishmaninwales » Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:05 am

I think Chris’ MOT point, in relation to space frame replacement, is good advice but it is a personal choice, as I’ve said before, based on an individual’s willingness to accept risk.

I shall also continue to refer the large chunk of metal in the centre of the car as a chassis. :D
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PostPost by: nmauduit » Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:27 pm

englishmaninwales wrote:I had to look that one up :lol:
La parabole de la paille et de la poutre ...

we use it just as a saying, I must confess I did not know about the actual origin either : the drift being one sees better the mole is someone else's eye than the beam in his own...
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PostPost by: miked » Fri Jan 14, 2022 3:49 pm

Ok understood. I am declared mot exempt at the moment and did my own mot last year and recorded all. Ok I have no brake test but never failed one. I was considering having yearly mots anyway upon reflection. Only stopped since I have to travel quite a distance to a decent one. Some of the more local ones have caused damage and problems with my cars in the past. Even after doing them year on year and me standing with them. Same guy jacked on my A frames whilst i took a phone call :roll:
One even jacked into the fiberglass floor. Nervous wreck was I. So not being tight, just the stress.
So do I need to get the mot exeption removed off the car or carry on and just keep the mot upto date.
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