Lotus Elan

Lotus 23p?

PostPost by: h20hamelan » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:33 am

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PostPost by: elans3 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:24 am

Very interesting car, but can't help thinking it rather destroys Chapman's idea of adding lightness ! Will be fantastic on the straights, but maybe not so good round corners,,,,, That motor will be something like twice as heavy as a good 170bhp Twincam. It will sound great though.
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PostPost by: nmauduit » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:34 am

yes, beautiful shape but a 2l may have been more period correct, this becomes a bitza to me in spite of a heavy storytelling - I'm not sure what could be made of it (not an FIA car, not a road car ... repro chassis, what legit bit would remain? )
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PostPost by: Fred Talmadge » Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:31 pm

Reminds me of a Elva Mk7 that didn't have a reliable engine supply which eventually led to the Elva Porsche. Here in USA you could race this almost every where as vintage racing isn't as official as Europe. If nothing else the Porsche Club would welcome you.
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PostPost by: bitsobrits » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:51 pm

elans3 wrote:Very interesting car, but can't help thinking it rather destroys Chapman's idea of adding lightness ! Will be fantastic on the straights, but maybe not so good round corners,,,,, That motor will be something like twice as heavy as a good 170bhp Twincam. It will sound great though.


From other posts on this site, a complete twin cam weighs about 260lbs. And from a Porsche site, an air cooled Porsche 6, complete, about 400lbs. So add in the cooling system for the TC (~50 lbs) and factor in a lower CG and much better weight/power and I think this Porsche might not be so bad at all.
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:33 pm

Porsche engine is primitive compared to a Cosworth BDA. Good for snob value however.
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PostPost by: Baggy2 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:47 pm

A lot of UK readers will know about Triggers broom :) ........

In a UK Sitcom Trigger, a road sweeper had had the same broom for 20 years - it had had 5 new heads and 6 new handles during his ownership.
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PostPost by: Slowtus » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:54 pm

bitsobrits wrote:
elans3 wrote:Very interesting car, but can't help thinking it rather destroys Chapman's idea of adding lightness ! Will be fantastic on the straights, but maybe not so good round corners,,,,, That motor will be something like twice as heavy as a good 170bhp Twincam. It will sound great though.


From other posts on this site, a complete twin cam weighs about 260lbs. And from a Porsche site, an air cooled Porsche 6, complete, about 400lbs. So add in the cooling system for the TC (~50 lbs) and factor in a lower CG and much better weight/power and I think this Porsche might not be so bad at all.


Was that the weight for the mag version?...I noodled around the 'net but couldn't get a specific weight figure for the mag version of the Porsche engine/box.
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PostPost by: Slowtus » Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:57 pm

2cams70 wrote:Porsche engine is primitive compared to a Cosworth BDA. Good for snob value however.


And? We are comparing a Twin Cam with a Porsche engine, not a BDA...
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:10 pm

Slowtus wrote:And? We are comparing a Twin Cam with a Porsche engine, not a BDA...


If you had the desire to upgrade the engine from a Lotus Twin Cam why on earth would you use a Porsche engine and not something more technically advanced, with a better racing pedigree, and more in keeping with the family history of Lotus such as something from the Ford Cosworth BD family of engines. Apart from the "look at me" and snob value the Porsche engine offers little else. By the way there's nothing i enjoy more than the sight of a humble Ford Escort beating a Porsche on a racetrack!
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PostPost by: Slowtus » Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:18 pm

2cams70 wrote:
Slowtus wrote:And? We are comparing a Twin Cam with a Porsche engine, not a BDA...


If you had the desire to upgrade the engine from a Lotus Twin Cam why on earth would you use a Porsche engine and not something more technically advanced, with a better racing pedigree, and more in keeping with the family history of Lotus such as something from the Ford Cosworth BD family of engines. Apart from the "look at me" and snob value the Porsche engine offers little else. By the way there's nothing i enjoy more than the sight of a humble Ford Escort beating a Porsche on a racetrack!


Sometimes you use what you have to hand, sometimes you have better technical knowledge of one engine over another, sometimes you try a few different setups until you find what 'fits', and often cost can be a major consideration.

ALL of the above have been considerations when I have done this type of thing, nothing to with 'snobbery'

The only snobbery here is yours.
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:06 am

Slowtus wrote:Sometimes you use what you have to hand, sometimes you have better technical knowledge of one engine over another, sometimes you try a few different setups until you find what 'fits', and often cost can be a major consideration.


That should be the point when you make the decision to sell the engine you have to someone who can make better and more appropriate use of it (i.e a true Porsche owner). The funds gained can then be put toward something that's better technically and/or more in keeping with the heritage of the vehicle it's fitted too.

This thing would be fine if only for the "shock and awe" factor if it were given a homebrew name such as "Frankie" and not misrepresented by being called a Lotus.

With "Powered by Porsche" livery all over it's obvious the previous owners thought there was some snob value to be had with the Porsche association.
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PostPost by: Slowtus » Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:47 pm

2cams70 wrote:
Slowtus wrote:Sometimes you use what you have to hand, sometimes you have better technical knowledge of one engine over another, sometimes you try a few different setups until you find what 'fits', and often cost can be a major consideration.


With "Powered by Porsche" livery all over it's obvious the previous owners thought there was some snob value to be had with the Porsche association.



I respectfully disagree, as both a Porsche and Lotus owner.

Both Porsche and Lotus are excellent examples of what a sports car is and the item in question here is simply as stated, a Lotus, powered by Porsche, no more, no less.

But then, I am no slave to tradition having recently stuffed an S2000 drivetrain in a Mk1 Cortina while keeping it looking original to all but the most eagle-eyed; the cost of a BDA or similar FAR exceeded the cost of an F20C and getting a tractable 240hp from a BDA...

I suspect had this Lotus 23 NOT been modified in this fashion it would be sitting in someone's back yard, quietly mouldering away.

More (Porsche) power (literally) to who assembled this creature.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:45 pm

My concern is not the powered by Porsche bit but calling it a Lotus. It claims to have "original" body panels whatever that means but is probably means new panel mouldings taken from some moulds that someone claimed came off an original car. The rest is new and substantially modified from the original Lotus 23 design so it is not even a close Lotus 23 Replica.

In Australia in the 60's a number of close copies of the Lotus 23 were produced by companies such as the Elfin Mallala and Renmax 23 which could at least claim to be Lotus 23 replicas, this car is a long way from being able to call itself anything Lotus IMHO despite it being a very nice example of a racing sports car one of special :D

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PostPost by: Slowtus » Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:49 pm

rgh0 wrote:My concern is not the powered by Porsche bit but calling it a Lotus. It claims to have "original" body panels whatever that means but is probably means new panel mouldings taken from some moulds that someone claimed came off an original car. The rest is new and substantially modified from the original Lotus 23 design so it is not even a close Lotus 23 Replica.

In Australia in the 60's a number of close copies of the Lotus 23 were produced by companies such as the Elfin Mallala and Renmax 23 which could at least claim to be Lotus 23 replicas, this car is a long way from being able to call itself anything Lotus IMHO despite it being a very nice example of a racing sports car one of special :D

cheers
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Potus?

Lorsche? :D
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