Lotus Elan

The HCVA

PostPost by: trw99 » Tue May 25, 2021 8:47 pm

I’m interested to know what folk think about this new organisation, which launched today: https://www.hcva.co.uk/

Whilst I laud their aims, I feel £90 is a stiff annual sub. I cannot find how they define a classic car on their site.

Thoughts?

Tim
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PostPost by: HCA » Tue May 25, 2021 10:39 pm

Never heard of it until you bring it up!

A load of b*ll*x I reckon!

I love their bit on brexit - '..the unintended consequences of Brexit include problems around deciphering complex new rules on the movement of vehicles and parts between the UK and EU and the viability of events both at home and abroad....' - clearly run by the oops brigade who voted to get their country back without having the foggiest idea what it is like outside the fence - wake up editors, the consequences were not unintended and there are no new rules - they were always there :D

They reckon the average classic car is £5,400! Really? I think most of us here spend this just propping up our Elans!

I think it a con to get £90 out of us :D
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PostPost by: StressCraxx » Wed May 26, 2021 1:50 am

trw99 wrote:I’m interested to know what folk think about this new organisation, which launched today: https://www.hcva.co.uk/

Whilst I laud their aims, I feel £90 is a stiff annual sub. I cannot find how they define a classic car on their site.

Thoughts?

Tim


Pay them 90 quid and they will obviously agree your car is a classic or historic vehicle....
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PostPost by: gherlt » Wed May 26, 2021 4:46 am

I think the target group is clear, look at page https://www.hcva.co.uk/12/why-join
"Why should I join?"
"For Trade & Industry" is the first paragraph.

And the "For Owners & Enthusiasts" paragraphs starts with:
"Adding your voice helps protect the diverse network of people, businesses and jobs that is..."
1964 S1 (engine ready, awainting body paint)
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PostPost by: 69S4 » Wed May 26, 2021 10:03 am

I'm sure I've been getting email newsletters from them - or some organisation that sounds vaguely similar - until I flagged them up as junk. Either way I have some sympathy with their aims and think it's no bad thing to have some kind of voice in the corridors of power. I suspect though that it might be a voice crying in the wilderness. There are a load of jobs and businesses based around the classic vehicle world in the UK and their needs should be somewhere in the mix when decisions are made but the tsunami of change that's coming down the line regarding fossil fuel use isn't going to distinguish between classic status and regular, everyday vehicles. Over the next ten years we're going to be 'encouraged' to go electric / green whether we like it or not and I can't see a situation where the new petrol / diesel vehicle market gradually gets taxed off the road and our old classics are untouched.

At one level the cynic in me wonders whether the recent liberalisation of tax / MOT status is by way of a last hurrah - enjoy them now, while you can. That may be assigning more foresight to politicians than their track record warrants but I've certainly wondered where we'll be in 10yrs. Anyone who's bought a classic vehicle for its investment value rather just for the enjoyment must be wondering at what point the curve is going to start heading downwards.

So, yes with reservations to the HCVA. The reservations are because I've seen many similar pressure groups evolve into serving their own interests more than those of their grass roots members. At £90 for individual membership though I'll be counting myself out. That plus the various corporate membership fee levels does suggest it's more country landowner than Morris Minor. I wonder what their plans are for any money they raise (beyond the p.r. speak on the website anyway)
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PostPost by: Seamus » Wed May 26, 2021 10:55 am

The FBHVC is an organisation already in existence that is supported by most car clubs I can't see the point of this new one,

They have just published the results of a recent survey that makes interesting reading:

https://www.fbhvc.co.uk/2020-research-result-headlines .

N.B. There is a 5min video on the link above which summarises their findings.
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PostPost by: Andy8421 » Wed May 26, 2021 11:19 am

69S4 wrote:Either way I have some sympathy with their aims and think it's no bad thing to have some kind of voice in the corridors of power. I suspect though that it might be a voice crying in the wilderness.


There will come a tipping point where it will become so difficult and expensive to use a classic car that all but the 'major classics' will cease to be used, and may well end up scrapped. All of the support we are used to, from petrol stations to sparking plug manufacturers to clutch plate suppliers will disappear. Probably not in the lifetime of many of us on this forum, but with the UK prohibiting the sale of ICE cars by 2030 (7.5 years and counting), it would be a brave man who opened up a new petrol station, or clutch or gearbox repair firm now.

There is a quote from Rudi Dornbusch: “things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could"

I think the adoption of electric vehicles is already well along this path.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed May 26, 2021 11:25 am

There is still a huge community of horse owners despite them becoming obsolete for transport 100 years ago and the same will occur with classic ICE cars just a question of what ends up being desirable ( race horses versus donkeys ?). It does not worry me as my Lotus and their driving enjoyment on the road and track will see me out :)

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PostPost by: Andy8421 » Wed May 26, 2021 1:28 pm

rgh0 wrote:There is still a huge community of horse owners despite them becoming obsolete for transport 100 years ago and the same will occur with classic ICE cars just a question of what ends up being desirable ( race horses versus donkeys ?). It does not worry me as my Lotus and their driving enjoyment on the road and track will see me out :)

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I would generally agree, although I might challenge 'huge' - in the UK it is 0.5% of the population who own a horse (still a big number, and larger than I would have thought). I can't recall seeing many horses when I was I Melbourne last. I think the point is that there a lot of donkeys out there that people think are classics, and might be in for a shock as demand dries up.

I live in a small(ish) village in West Sussex. We used to have a blacksmith for shoeing horses and a wheelwright for fixing buggies. As you might expect, neither are still with us, though that was in the era before internet lobby groups tried to support industries being swept away by progress. Firms can adapt though, Ferodo started life making brake blocks for horse drawn carriages.

I have posted links to these pictures before, but it really is quite remarkable:

https://alearningaday.blog/2017/10/22/horses-cars-and-the-disruptive-decade/

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PostPost by: HCA » Wed May 26, 2021 1:45 pm

Andy8421 wrote:There will come a tipping point where it will become so difficult and expensive to use a classic car that all but the 'major classics' will cease to be used, and may well end up scrapped. .


Do not despair too soon or do anything drastic. Porsche may have a way out for us: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/indu ... fuels-2022

Porsche are pumping huge bucks into the project, and if successful could be a game changer... maybe better to give Porsche your £90... :D
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PostPost by: Andy8421 » Wed May 26, 2021 3:08 pm

HCA wrote:
Andy8421 wrote:There will come a tipping point where it will become so difficult and expensive to use a classic car that all but the 'major classics' will cease to be used, and may well end up scrapped. .


Do not despair too soon or do anything drastic. Porsche may have a way out for us: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/indu ... fuels-2022

Porsche are pumping huge bucks into the project, and if successful could be a game changer... maybe better to give Porsche your £90... :D

I will give Porsche the benefit of the doubt, and assume the Autocar journalist was clueless, but the article is absolute nonsense. To suggest that the 'well to wheel' efficiency of an electric car is the same as electrolysing water to get hydrogen, combining this with CO2 to get the E-Fuel, shipping this to Europe from Chile and then burning in an internal combustion engine is fantasy. I will be very surprised if this goes anywhere at all. See below.

https://insideevs.com/news/332584/efficiency-compared-battery-electric-73-hydrogen-22-ice-13/
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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Wed May 26, 2021 5:17 pm

I think the Porsche is a test facility, shipping its product fuel to Germany for purpose of testing.
Point is, if they are putting that money into that product, they expect-and will get results.

Electric is fine for now, and many “classics” and what one deems in their eyes. So they will continue to convert to whatever tickles, if that is Elon thrustor technology or wood fired smoke.

52F9EC60-4904-438C-BFB7-61AC8463F50F.jpeg and


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PostPost by: mbell » Wed May 26, 2021 6:27 pm

I expect a significant change to the petrol distribution model over the next 20 years due very significant drop in demand but I think there will be enough demand for a very long time for Petrol or alternative to be available to the public. What the distribution will look like I am not sure, maybe small number of gas stations, maybe home delivery trucks, maybe buy it in containers.

Whenever there is some demand expect it will be available thou. We're going to continue to pump crude oil from the ground as it a source material for a lot of stuff (plastics, fuels, oils...) which isn't going away with cars moving to electric. What petrol will cost is less clear, it might change to being a by product for the other uses of crude and therefore available "cheap" or maybe it becomes expensive due to limited crude production, limited refinery capacity and other uses than car fuel for it.
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PostPost by: Frogelan » Thu May 27, 2021 6:12 pm

The HCVA probably have their heart in the right place and we should give them the benefit of the doubt. The management team seem responsible types.

Many of these car prep/resto businesses are not prepared for the future. Whilst I'm pleased that they are busy despite the Covid episode, I'm not sure that they are prepared for the demographics of their customer base, the inevitable need to make cars more ecological and for those in GB, the brexit fiasco.

What is particularly urgent for petrolheads is to comprehend the "age of steam" mind set of noisy exhausts, CVL additives and big 4 wheel drive gas guzzlers is over.

Does no one care about their children's future?

This is indeed where cars like the Elan have an important place. Have a closer look at E85 fuel and there is much to be said for doing a homemade conversion. I'm also interested in Porsche's innovative ideas in Chile but this is literally what is called here "l'usine à gaz" (gas production facility)

Both are very realistic as the World simply cannot dig up enough or even re-cycle Lithium efficiently: Mr Musk please take note. Electric cars have less of a future than push bikes.

Am I prepared to do my part ? Yes, with my GTS restoration I plan to change over to E85 and fit a Catalytic Converter. My resto project will probably take another 24 months and my guess is that by then, the FIA will look on such changes as being essential rather than unoriginal.

Have a look at the changes coming in Formula 1...
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PostPost by: Seamus » Thu May 27, 2021 9:05 pm

Don't you just love it when EVs aren't perfect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsKwMryKqRE
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