Lotus Elan

Selling parts on ebay- first issue in fifteen years.

PostPost by: elansprint71 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:59 pm

I've been buying and selling all sorts of stuff on eBay for years and have a perfect score of 1307 sold items. I've recently sold a refurbished pair of rear wishbones complete with (unused) poly-bushes fitted. These were removed from my S4, which I bought as a stalled project; the car has not run since the rebuild as a sprint/hill-climb started about 15 years ago, the suspension has just been sitting, waiting. They had light surface rusting and were perfectly straight (I measured them; I'm a Precision Toolmaker by training) there were some light signs of clamping in the assembly jig; no jacking damage.

I wire-brushed the surface rust, rust-proofed and Hammerite painted them; packaged them to aero-industry standards in terms of volume of protective layers and sent them to the winning bidder. Bidding went rather higher than I had anticipated (I suspect the red mist descended in the closing bidding stages).

I've had a message from eBay indicating that the buyer contends that they are not "as described" and, despite my having advertised with "no returns"; it appears that if the buyer says they are not "as described" then the seller has to pay for a return and refund the buyer! He's posted a few really blurred snaps, with his Christmas tree in the background, as "supporting evidence".

The buyer has not contacted me prior to instigating this action.

So, I have read this evening on eBay that "Buyer's Remorse" is not a valid reason for requesting a refund- I suspect that he has realised that he has over-bid on a pair of previously owned wishbones.

I spent an hour packaging these items before giving them to the Courier; it will be interesting to see how they are returned. Evidently I do not have to refund him until I have receive the items back.

Seller beware....
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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:20 pm

I wonder the legalities of “not as described” “the description” is it up for interpretation?
I would also wonder if ebay or Visa paypal etc had a letter from a “Law Firm” requesting who’s “description” is correct? I do not believe from your story ebay has treated you fairly, and I dont think you would loose.

I once purchased a windscreen for a snowmobile, it came without the fitting items as described. A nominal $10 was refunded by the seller, as his pictures clearly showed the fitting gromit,
Recently, I purchased some tubeless tire conversion for a bike. The seller this time on Amazon did not say where they were located (Japan) and the listing did not specify there may be extra fees for import. The ebay listing said import fees included. Both the ebay and amazon prices were the same final with taxes and shipping, so I figured it was included with the amazon.
Nice thing, amazon covered the fees, but only for a future purchase from amazon, not a marketplace buyer.
I would do some reasurch as you are not the first person i bet, to be treated like this.

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PostPost by: elanfan1 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:26 am

Pete,

Before you go any further. Suggest you telephone eBay you can get there via the help pages. Argue your case that they are exactly as described, you don’t offer refunds and the buyer has remorse. With your feedback and long membership I’d hope they’d side with you. Then you can tell the buyer to sell them on himself if he doesn’t want them.
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PostPost by: reb53 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:12 am

elanfan1 wrote:Pete,

Before you go any further. Suggest you telephone eBay you can get there via the help pages. Argue your case that they are exactly as described, you don’t offer refunds and the buyer has remorse. With your feedback and long membership I’d hope they’d side with you. Then you can tell the buyer to sell them on himself if he doesn’t want them.


This sounds the best approach.

However,
" Evidently I do not have to refund him until I have receive the items back."

Unless the return is signed for I'd be tempted to say, " but I haven't received them..." :)
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PostPost by: mikealdren » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:16 am

I've heard of this happening and heard ebay described as a buyers paradise and a seller's nightmare but luckily, as a frequent buyer and occasional seller, I have only had a couple of difficult buyers. One dropped out as soon as he won it and the other argued forever about £5 postage for a DVD player before also dropping out.

Can you at least give us his location so we can be forewarned?
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PostPost by: SimonH » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:54 am

The winner sounds like he’s decided he bid too high as you say.
Had a quick look at the ad and they look fine so don’t know how he can complain. Shouldn’t have put in a number he wasn’t willing to pay. Probably assumed it wouldn’t hit that high.
I would tell them to go away and stop with the buyers remorse. It’s an auction not a buy it now from a company with distance selling I’ve changed my mind rules. Well I presume that doesn’t come into it for auctions now
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PostPost by: mikealdren » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:43 am

Did he say why it wasn't as advertised? Sounds like he just wanted a free part.
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PostPost by: AshleyPark » Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:02 pm

If you had every confidence in the item you were selling, why did you state "No Returns"? I normally allow returns as long as the buyer pays the postage, that's often incentive enough not to initiate a return.

However, I don't think it's unreasonable for a buyer to return something for whatever reason, just as you would be able to if you bought something in a shop. I've had a few, it's no big deal.
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:10 pm

I had a similar experience a few months back. I was selling a few vintage watches and 1 was a 1924 18K ladies "cocktail" Rolex. This pretty and virtually mint little thing.

24Rolex18K.jpg and


A bit of a bidding war occurred which had it up to a surprising total. I wrapped it most carefully in foam and bubble wrap and sent it off. A few days later same nonsense - "not as described."
When I got it back (at my expense) the original wrapping was untouched.
Just a time waster d*ck wit. Address showed Peterborough - I should have known! :)
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PostPost by: nmauduit » Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:09 pm

well, I guess this kind of behavior is part of human nature and can be found anywhere ... even on this very forum on occasion. As a general observation, I have the growing feeling that the value people grant to their word tends to decrease over time, sadly as if it was a value out of date in today's society.

I don't sell much as being more of the pack rat type, but the initial risk which was on the buyer side 15-20 years ago has been shifted to the seller side, as they are the ones ultimately paying for the waranties offered by the plateforms.
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PostPost by: 661 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 3:28 pm

Totally weighted towards the buyer.
Luckily when dealing with Lotus bits you are usually dealing with decent people.
I had a lot of problems with my son's classic mini stuff. A different cohort of people!
If he doen't send them back recorded delivery, then you never received them ....! Depends if you want to play that game.
Last edited by 661 on Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: draenog » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:26 pm

reb53 wrote:
elanfan1 wrote:Pete,

Before you go any further. Suggest you telephone eBay you can get there via the help pages. Argue your case that they are exactly as described, you don’t offer refunds and the buyer has remorse. With your feedback and long membership I’d hope they’d side with you. Then you can tell the buyer to sell them on himself if he doesn’t want them.


This sounds the best approach.

However,
" Evidently I do not have to refund him until I have receive the items back."

Unless the return is signed for I'd be tempted to say, " but I haven't received them..." :)


Returns are tracked, but the seller can refuse to accept it. This may or may not work depending on how dogged the buyer is...

A couple of years ago I bought a pair of boxed track rod ends listed as NOS. What I got was clearly modern repro parts which didn't look anything like the pictures. Contacted the seller and got no reply so I opened a "not as described" case. Seller didn't respond to that either so I escalated it. Customer support found in my favour and I got a returns label.

Sent them back and tracking showed two attempts at delivery both of which were refused as "wrongly addressed" (which blocked the return as for it to proceed automatically the return had to be delivered). This left me with no option but to ring up customer support (a long and painful process).

Turns out that all that is needed is proof that delivery was attempted - that shows that you sent the item back. So I got my money refunded, all £30 :lol: (it wasn't the money it was the principle). The seller lost his money and the parts.

Six months later the package was returned to me and I chucked it in the bin.
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PostPost by: draenog » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:13 pm

What I was trying to say in my previous post is that you have no way out of it (unfortunately for you, as you're the innocent party). If the buyer has had a return accepted they will have a pre-paid returns label which is tracked. Whatever you do, do not refuse delivery. This will block the automated returns process but customer support will take this as a return attempt and you will lose your money and the parts. The best you can do is refund the money and try and sell the parts again.
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PostPost by: snowyelan » Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:34 am

Buyers perspective, mine anyway. First option, meet, inspect, handshake (or covid elbow bump) cash, deal done. Second option lotuselan.net member who's name I recognize, pics, agree on payment and shipping terms, done. Third option, or maybe first depending on what it is, one of our trusted retailers, Sue, RD, etc. Fourth, Ebay, Amazon etc. $100 MAX, and cross my fingers....
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:37 pm

If it's any consolation one major issue in 1000+ transactions is not a bad track record and a similar hit rate to mine in 1000+ transactions. You'd probably have a similar if not worse hit rate in "bricks and mortar" purchases.

I have to say in my case at least I've certainly gained far, far more than I've lost conducting internet purchases. By far the majority of people are honest and do the right thing. I also like using Gumtree. I've bought many things on Gumtree from all over Australia. Unlike Ebay there's no protection whatsoever if it's a purchase sight unseen from a far away place. I've sent people money direct by EFT (i.e no protection) and relied on people to send items as promised once the money is in their account. I've only had one bad instance where I lost $100. Generally speaking if you show you are genuine and trusting the vast majority of people will reciprocate in kind.
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