Lotus Elan

DVLA Questioning Provenance

PostPost by: wotsisname » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:44 am

Alan, Thank you for that. I hadn't seen that post, but had seen others that are a bit confusing.
I have recently declared SORN on a vehicle that's been off the road since 1986, I am still waiting for the DVLA website to be updated (it claims 5 days) though. I'm trying to get the car back on the road, next step is some "laid up" insurance. I have also to declare a new colour (but I figure that can wait a bit).
1968 Elan plus 2 - project
2007 Elise S2 [modified with a Hethel 70th sticker (yellow)]
2000 Elise S1 - Sold
Third Gear
Third Gear
Posts: 450
Joined: 24 Jun 2015
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

PostPost by: elansprint71 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:38 pm


Bugatti Owners Club have been issuing Historic Vehicle Identities for brand-new copies mainly, but not, all built in Argentina. Allegedly. The bottom has now, rightly, dropped out of that market.
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
Posts: 4092
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Location: Cheshire, UK.

PostPost by: terryp » Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:49 am

Chancer wrote:Every cloud has a silver lining though!

A very brief edit of my story, I recommissioned a 1987 Caterham 7 that had never been registered and converted it to motorcycle engine propulsion, this was in the early 2000's, I didnt want to SVA it and had a long battle with the DVLA which I eventually won after being jerked around for ages, the age of the vehicle meant it was outside of the scope of the then SVA r?gulations.

The last letter they wrote me said that the vehicle would be issued with an age relatedregistration, I think a Q plate back then, they cocked it up though and gave it a new registration :lol: and I quickly transferred my personal reg plate to it before they realised their error.

I had a problem at MOT time as they had not filled out any of the emissions fields but the tester is a mate and its been sorned for the last decade anyway.

I now want the DVLA to admit they made a mistake and to give me a correct V5 with a 1987 date of manufacture so that I can register it in France on the historic vehicle exemption in 2 years time so this Bugatti case is of great interest.

Just seen this. The FFVE documents state registered or constructed. My Caterham was registered in late 1985 but I got a letter from Caterham to say it was constructed in October 1984. Now my Carte Gris says January 1984 as that's what they do :roll:
I think your problem will be the bike engine, you may have to find an old XFlow engine!
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
Posts: 1665
Joined: 29 Nov 2007

PostPost by: paddy » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:27 pm

1963 Elan S1
User avatar
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
Posts: 1191
Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Location: Woking, Surrey

PostPost by: Chancer » Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:00 am


I have PM'd you, or at least I think I have as I'm not really sure how the system works, let me know if you didnt recieve it.
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
Posts: 1391
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Location: Northern France/ Sussex UK

PostPost by: elanfan1 » Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:37 am

Here's the text from the Heritage link above which appears to calm the waters somewhat. In view of the seismic importance of this matter I'd have thought that Alan from Club Lotus ought to attend the meeting on 23/9. I'll send him a mail -anyway:

After the DVLA Crackdown on Classic Car Ages we take a look at the responses and whether you really have to prove the age and identity of your vehicle.
Earlier in the year some classic car owners checked their morning post to find a letter from the DVLA, asking them to confirm the recorded date of manufacture of their vehicle. The DVLA would then assess whether the date of manufacture was indeed correct. If they concluded that the date was incorrect the owner would then be issued with a new vehicle registration certificate, which would involve a new registration number. In some cases an Individual Vehicle Approval may be required along with a Q registration number if appropriate.

As you can imagine this did not go down well.

We?re sure you can empathise with any classic car owner who, after having spent years legally reconstructing, restoring and improving their cherished vehicle to then receive a letter from the DVLA and be told could be deemed unworthy or at worst illegal and banned from the roads.

So why is there suddenly a DVLA crackdown on classic car ages?

With the purpose of becoming more efficient, the DVLA closed its Local Offices and centralised their records, including records of V767 and age related registration applications. To then improve the way records are held, recorded and their overall consistency they began looking into certain records, and whilst doing so found at least in one case, that a registration had been issued based upon information which was not entirely correct.

This then led to the dreaded letters being sent to a number of classic car owners as part of an ongoing investigation by the DVLA.

What do we now know?

Well the DVLA have confirmed that this was a targeted project, looking at specific vehicles which appeared ?worthy of examination? and there were no plans to make all owners of Historic-classified vehicles prove their car?s age and identity.

The main problem here seems to be the way the DVLA handled the issue, although they spoke with the FBHVC prior to their investigation they did not inform them of the ?general approach or the precise terms of the letter? they sent out. It appears that the ambiguity of the letters, and what the DVLA were doing led to many classic car owners being concerned and slightly alarmed whilst waiting to see whether they too would need to prove the age of their vehicle.

So what next on the DVLA Crackdown on Classic Car Ages?

Overall, it seems as though this isn?t anything to necessarily worry about ? right now anyway.

The All Parliamentary Historic Group have provided the FBHVC with a clear statement to assure their members that ?sending a letter in these terms to anyone except the keepers of vehicles which might have been incorrectly registered would open up a great number of questions about the propriety, the questions it implies and to create an immense problem in DVLA as to how it would deal with the many and varied responses which would be received.?

The FBHVC have also been very clear that they are ?fundamentally opposed? to all classic car owners having to prove their vehicle?s identity.

So, after all these dramatic turn of events the DVLA are going to hold a Historic Vehicle Event in Swansea, 23rd September ? we?re guessing so that they can try and calm the waters! Representatives from FBHVC member clubs and other association organisations will meet with aim of providing ?guidance on various matters relating to the registration of historic vehicles?

We?ll keep you updated on any news we hear from that meeting. But remember you don?t need to take any action unless you have received a letter from the DVLA requesting you provide evidence of your vehicles age.

Silence is Guildern; Duct Tape is Silver
User avatar
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
Posts: 2099
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Location: Cardiff in Welsh Wales

PostPost by: elanfan1 » Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:51 pm

After pointing Alan Morgan to this thread he contacted me to say he was already attending the meeting with the DVLA . The response following that meeting is very positive and we should have little to worry about. this was Alan's reply:

Hi Steve,

I think it went much better than anyone could have anticipated.

DVLA were very accommodating and listened carefully to the points raised by everyone.

I think they appreciated the clubs' points of view on various issues and accepted that maybe communication between all parties has not been as good as it could have been over the last 3/4 years. It was generally agreed that much of this can be traced back to the closure of their local offices. There was also much discussion about the V765 scheme where on occasion there are inconsistencies in how they reach a decision to accept or refuse an application. DVLA said they would look at this.

We were assured there are no plans for a wide ranging initiative to require classic car owners to prove their vehicles provenance as some had feared.

Throughout the meeting DVLA certainly came across as willing to help as much as they can given that they have to operate within the policies they are given. They were prepared to take various suggestions on board and it was a good opportunity to speak to their senior people face to face. There is a strong possibility that similar meetings will be arranged in the future, perhaps even on a regular basis.

Silence is Guildern; Duct Tape is Silver
User avatar
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
Posts: 2099
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Location: Cardiff in Welsh Wales

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests