Lotus Elan

Lotus / Twin Cam Cortina vs BMW 2002

PostPost by: peterexpart » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:15 pm

I notice over the past year that the Lotus Cortina has been mentioned a number of times, like most drivers around in the 60,s when these were the Hot Saloon of choice and having owned one in 1969 / 1970, I truly believed the hype, imagine my surprise when I recently picked up a 1969 Road Test comparing the Mk 2 Lotus Twin Cam with the Standard BMW 2002 Lux to find that the BMW 0-60 Time, Top Speed and Fuel Consumption were all better than the Cortina, and this was the Standard Single Carb BMW, not even the Injected Tii.
My illusions are shattered !!
PeterExpart
New Forest National Park
Hampshire UK
peterexpart
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 223
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Location: New Forest Hampshire UK

PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:08 pm

They are pretty heavy for the std 115bhp Peter, and of course the concept goes back to 1962, so they really were comparing two different generations.Most run Sprint spec engines now, but even that isn't fast by today's standards. Great fun though as they handle so well, and encourage tail-out driving with their skinny tyres.

When I lived in Australia I ran a Dolomite Sprint for a while, and a mate has a Tii 2002, and they were very well matched. I guess that these were the extension to the next generation! We used to surprise the lads at the lights in their big old V8 Monaros and Falcons, but as the Dolly was bright yellow, and the BM an even brighter Orange, we soon became known by the V8 brigade and the law!

The Escorts still surprise, and a well built Twincam or BDA car can still keep up with 5 year old rally cars on the rough stuff, with talented armatures driving. The professionals driving a modern rally car will storm away, but the cars are just too powerful for mere mortals to gain any advantage..

All good fun!

Mark
User avatar
Elanintheforest
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2896
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Forest Of Dean, Gloucestershire

PostPost by: peterexpart » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:54 am

Mark
I had my Mk11 in 1969, at the time I had just purchased a Triumph Vitesse Drop Head with the full SAH Mods to rear suspension and Twin Exhausts, my father bought the Twin Cam new and hated it, so we agreed a straight swop, I think I got the better of the deal. I only kept it for 11 Months and replaced it with a TR6 but still remember that it was a lot of fun to drive.
I was only looking at the 2002 Road Tests as I am negotiating the purchase of a Tii at the moment and was interested to see what the testers thought of them at the time.
PeterExpart
New Forest National Park
Hampshire UK
peterexpart
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 223
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Location: New Forest Hampshire UK

PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:03 am

There is a nice little Mk 2 coming up for auction next week....Colin Chapman's old car.

http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1068834

Mark
User avatar
Elanintheforest
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2896
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Forest Of Dean, Gloucestershire

PostPost by: trw99 » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:35 am

Nice car! Tan vinyl upholstery - yep, remember that well.

Mark, RM give the engine number as N/Z9268. How does that relate to 'our' twin cams, if at all?

Tim
User avatar
trw99
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2832
Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Location: Essex/Herts border, UK

PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:39 am

IMHO the Datsun 1600 SSS of the same era was a better car than both at a much cheaper price. A block based on the Ford 1600 block but stronger and a crank capable of 10000 rpm. A head based on the BMW 2002 but better made also. Suspension again based on the 2002.

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7511
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: AlfaLofa » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:16 am

About 40 years ago whilst driving my Elan late at night through the apparently empty streets of Harrow, an aggressively driven BMW 2002 (variety unknown) appeared inches off my rear bumper.

I was young and hot-headed (fortunately not any longer) so a chase developed.

After negotiating a 90 degree right turn, I clearly remember looking in my mirror and seeing the BMW mount the pavement and nearly go through a shop window.

The extra wide pavement outside the shops saved the glass (but probably not the steering, suspension and wheels of the BMW).

Conclusion - Elans could corner more quickly and safely than BMW 2002s.
Steve
'64 S1 Elan (Owned since '73)
'69 Alfa Romeo 1750 Spider Veloce (Owned since '77)
'70 Morris Minor 1000 (Owned since '85)
User avatar
AlfaLofa
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 518
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Location: Scotland, UK.

PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:23 pm

trw99 wrote:Nice car! Tan vinyl upholstery - yep, remember that well.

Mark, RM give the engine number as N/Z9268. How does that relate to 'our' twin cams, if at all?

Tim

Tim, I think that the 9268 is just the normal Twincam series, and this looks about right for a Jan '69 car (although the numbers are all over the place from 1968 onwards!).

Haven't a clue what the N/Z means. I suspect a typo or misreading. It should be an 'E', or sometimes, an 'F', both Domestic Weber S/E designations.

Mark
User avatar
Elanintheforest
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2896
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Forest Of Dean, Gloucestershire

PostPost by: el-saturn » Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:00 pm

that late night ride in harrow put a smile on my face - HOWEVER - would you have lifted yr foot IF he would?ve
gone thru the window????????? 36/4982 sandy
el-saturn
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1420
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Location: switzerland

PostPost by: lotusS2guy » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:28 pm

I had to smile at AlfaLofa's story also. About the same time frame, I was driving my Elan with freshly-built engine on Sunset Blvd (Southern California) toward the Ocean. A Porsche 356 came along side at a traffic signal and revved his engine. At the signal change he burned out and I moved out slowly since I was still breaking the new engine in. I caught up with him at the next light and the same thing happened. Well, at the third signal, I just said f**k it, and we both charged off the line when the light changed. There is an interesting downhill right hander on Sunset before Pacific Coast Highway and we were side by side approaching it. When he braked for the turn, I UPSHIFTED and burried the throttle. I never saw him again, but I imagined him limping home wondering what had slapped him down so badly.

Conclusion - Elans could corner more quickly and safely than old Porsches. :D :D :D
Herb
26/4618
User avatar
lotusS2guy
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 111
Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPost by: 69S4 » Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:24 am

lotusS2guy wrote:I had to smile at AlfaLofa's story also. About the same time frame, I was driving my Elan with freshly-built engine on Sunset Blvd (Southern California) toward the Ocean. A Porsche 356 came along side at a traffic signal and revved his engine.


Sounds like the old Jan and Dean song :lol: :lol:

"I was cruisin' in my Stingray late one night
When an XKE pulled up on the right
And rolled down the window of his shiny new Jag
And challenged me then and there to a drag" etc
Stuart Holding
Thame UK / Alpe D'Huez France
69 S4 FHC
Honda GoldWing 1800
Honda CBX1000
Kawasaki H1 500
Yamaha XS2
69S4
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1210
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Location: nr Oxford UK

PostPost by: AlfaLofa » Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:10 pm

Elan v Porsche Part 2

I too remember an entertaining interaction with a Porsche driver.

It happened in the summer of 1973 when on my way to work (on the afternoon shift) I found myself entering the roundabout at the bottom of Brockley Hill in Edgware behind an M registered Porsche Carrera. It must have been fresh out of the showroom.

The Porsche floored it up the hill, but due to traffic he couldn't pull away from me - in fact (with the benefit of my IWR cams) I was right up his a**e.

Each passing manoeuvre he made was matched by my own (I probably never got out of 2nd gear).

I can imagine how he felt - he had a brand new expensive Carrera yet he couldn't shake off what appeared to be a nine year old heap of junk (which cost me ?399).

We passed the Royal Orthopaedic Hospital and descended down towards the roundabout on the A41 at the (now gone) Aldenham Bus Works.

Both cars negotiated the roundabout at high speed with only a fag paper between us.

As I exited the roundabout heading up Elstree Hill I thought it was time for further p**s taking - so I pulled into the outside lane with indicators flashing to show that I could perform an overtaking manoeuvre.

Fortunately traffic coming in the opposite direction gave me the excuse I needed to curb my bravado and get back behind the Porsche. The pursuit continued.

At the top of Elstree Hill the lights were red - and we were at the head of the queue.

The showdown had arrived.

The Carrera took up his position on the inside lane - and I pulled up alongside. By this time he must have been sh**ing himself.

We both revved our engines wildly and watched the lights intently waiting for go.

When the lights changed my opponent floored the pedal. The car shot forward, snaking its way through Elstree Village towards Radlett.

I quietly signalled right and turned slowly into Barnet Lane to continue my journey to work.

I could have gone straight on and then turned right along Allum Lane - but I decided that turning at the lights was more prudent. I knew when I was beaten.
Steve
'64 S1 Elan (Owned since '73)
'69 Alfa Romeo 1750 Spider Veloce (Owned since '77)
'70 Morris Minor 1000 (Owned since '85)
User avatar
AlfaLofa
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 518
Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Location: Scotland, UK.

PostPost by: lotusS2guy » Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:36 pm

@69S4
Actually the "Dead Man's Curve" made famous in the Jan and Dean song was on Sunset but in the opposite direction from the westbound course I was taking. It has been eliminated due to the high number of fatalities. BTW, I saw Dean Torrence perform a couple of years ago (Jan passed away in 2004). He lives a couple of miles from me. We have both slowed down considerably. 8)
Herb
26/4618
Herb
26/4618
User avatar
lotusS2guy
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 111
Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPost by: elansprint71 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:07 pm

Cough... and getting, roughly, back on topic: If that gold Cortina actually did belong to Colin Crapman, why do they feel the need to blank out the registration plate?
elansprint71
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4092
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Location: Cheshire, UK.

PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:12 pm

I don't think that there is any doubt as to the provenance of the car, Pete. It is the only known Amber Gold Mk 2 Lotus Cortina, and was bought from the Lotus auction at Hethel by Jamie Kitman from New York. He writes for 'Automobile Magazine' in the US, manages the band 'They Might Be Giants' and he's an attorney, so quite a busy and well known bloke. And he is the one selling the car.

There was an article about the car in Car magazine in 1999, and a couple of great pictures taken showing the car in it's new surroundings.
Mark
Attachments
991000 Car Mag Chapman Gold Cortina003small.jpg and
User avatar
Elanintheforest
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2896
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Forest Of Dean, Gloucestershire

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests