Lotus Elan

Neither taxed nor SORN'd

PostPost by: Chancer » Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:05 pm

I have a 1972 Elan that had not been on the road for over a decade when I bought her some 15 years ago, well before the advent of SORN, I registered her in my name at the time and have the V5.

When the first people started getting fines for non declaration of SORN I was quite pleased that I appeared to have slipped through the net as I never ever got any reminders, I believe it was because a vehicle had to be taxed and then the tax expire before SORN kicked in and that vehicles like mine and presumably all those in museums were not affected, I dont know about exempt but not affected.

anyway to date the situation has suited me fine, I now live in France although retain the property in the UK, the Lotus is in storage here and the lack of sorn is a bonus as my neighbour has to take care of it on my Caterham 7 that is gathering dust there.

What has put me on alert is that I recieved a new green type V5 from the DVLA for the Caterham (no idea why) but not for the Elan, will there be any problems with taxing the vehicle in the distant future or declaring her exported? In fact can anyone explain to me why these new V5's are/were sent out, the cynic in me says that there has to be an ulterior motive.
Chancer
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1391
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Location: Northern France/ Sussex UK

PostPost by: George4th » Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:36 pm

Just surfed a bit and found this ......
What do I need to know about the new certificate?

The new V5C will apply only to vehicles registered after 15 August, but will also be issued when a vehicle passes to a new owner or if there is a change of address.

The re-designed V5C will be issued to all remaining vehicles from July 2011 when they are next re-licensed or declared to be off the road.


So presumably on declaring the Caterham as SORN they issued a new type V5C?
As the new type V5C isn't being issued to all vehicles it would seem not to be a problem for a car without one

George 4th
Guild member and proud of it
User avatar
George4th
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 70
Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Location: West Northumbershire UK

PostPost by: AussieJohn » Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:38 pm

I think the new V5's were issued because a load of blank forms were stolen at some time so they had to re-issue everyone a replacement. The new ones are mainly red.
AussieJohn
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 447
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Yorkshire

PostPost by: George4th » Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:40 pm

OOps last post is out of date , this is from the DVLA web site ....

When will you get a new style V5C?

DVLA is replacing all existing blue V5Cs and will issue a new red V5C for all vehicles that have not already had one by November 2012.

You will also receive a new style V5C when:

you buy a new vehicle and the DVLA is notified
you apply to change any vehicle or personal details, such as change of name and/or address
your V5C has been lost, stolen or destroyed and you apply for a replacement

Please continue to use your blue V5C until you receive a new red one, when dealing with the Post Office? or DVLA.
Is the blue version of the V5C still valid?

The blue version of the V5C is still valid so you can still use it to:

tax or SORN your vehicle
notify DVLA of any changes to the vehicle or keeper details
sell your vehicle

If you are buying a used vehicle, whether the seller has the red or blue version of the V5C, they are both valid. Both documents should show the ?DVL? watermark when you hold them up to the light.

Remember that checking the V5C is only one step in the buying process. There are many other checks that you need to carry out before you make the decision whether to buy a vehicle.


So probably still OK but expect your new doc soon on the Elan anyway. .........and I will on my Caterham :wink:
Guild member and proud of it
User avatar
George4th
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 70
Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Location: West Northumbershire UK

PostPost by: UAB807F » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:12 pm

I got a new one last year when I put my Elan back on the road and the situation sounds similar to yours. The car was off the road just before the SORN regs came in to force and as the DVLA never bothered me it seemed rude to bother them, not even when we moved house & county.

Going back on the road wasn't a problem, I just insured, Mot'd and sent off all the relevant forms for a tax disc, including my change of address. I even asked for the return of the previous documents as it was classed as an "historic vehicle" and I wanted to keep the paper trail intact. No problem, the originals came back with the tax disc & a note that the new V5 would follow - and it did.

Brian
User avatar
UAB807F
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 645
Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Location: Lincolnshire

PostPost by: Henry VIIII » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:00 pm

Why a problem?

The SORN is free is it not, and takes only about 3 minutes per year to do it on-line.
Henry
1967 S3 FHC
A joke a day helps you work, rest, and play. :lol:
Henry VIIII
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 157
Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Location: Middlesex, UK

PostPost by: Chancer » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:31 pm

Thanks for all our replies, I agree it seems rude to bother them :lol:

Why a problem? Well its another 3 minutes spent on useless beurocracy to add to all the other hours that I am forced to spend but no its not a problem to jump through whatever hoop the powers that be ask me too, its a pleasure :roll: - I have been in France too long :D :D

The problem comes when I dont know that the SORN notification has arrived on the doorstep in the UK, or even hasnt arrived and I get fined for not jumping through the hoop which would otherwise have been such a pleasure to have done :roll:

I am quite happy with the current situation, at least it saves on trees and the DVLA's postage bill.

Editted. This is re the Caterham which has to be declared SORN and always causes my overanxious neighbour an anxiety attack, if it is declared SORN online do you then get the reminder by e_mail the next year?

My neighbour duly takes the form (which has been sent by first class post) to the post office and gets it stamped later on another letter arrives from the DVLA to confirm this, and I thought France was bad for fonctionnaires and paperasse!
Last edited by Chancer on Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chancer
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1391
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Location: Northern France/ Sussex UK

PostPost by: simonknee » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:33 pm

They did not care when I was off road for a couple of years, in the last decade, without any SORN.
They can fine you but they don't and I have a theory as to why.
If your vehicle is pre-73 then vehicle excise duty is "nil".
If you get stopped without a valid tax disc you'll discover (as I have) that there is no fine.
This is because the fine is for non-payment of the tax NOT displaying the wrong disc.
I think the same applies with SORN and they cannot (or just do not) fine you if you do not owe anything.

This is only a theory and next time I would not be so lazy and do the SORN but neither would I give myself sleepless nights if I didn't have it (only on a pre-73 vehicle mind)
Simon
'67 S3 FHC 36/7002
'69 +2 50/1370 (stolen '00)
User avatar
simonknee
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 916
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Location: London

PostPost by: George4th » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:48 pm

Chancer wrote:Editted. This is re the Caterham which has to be declared SORN and always causes my overanxious neighbour an anxiety attack, if it is declared SORN online do you then get the reminder by e_mail the next year?


No unfortunately not! You just need someone to open and give you the code

George 4th
Guild member and proud of it
User avatar
George4th
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 70
Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Location: West Northumbershire UK

PostPost by: Spyder fan » Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:53 pm

Chancer,
it won't be a problem, as others have pointed out there were a number of blank V5 forms stolen and as a precaution the good old DVLA are changing over people who have cars registered with the old Blue V5's to the new Red ones, they are doing this on a rolling basis starting with A working through to Z or something similar over a number of months.

So long as the registration number of your 1972 Elan is not the least bit desirable and is just a CBA321K type of number then it's safe to keep under the radar and just declare the car when you actually want to put it back on the road. If its a nice number like BON 1K or something then it's best to get it SORN or you could lose the right to the number.

My non desirable number Elan S4 YYP494H sat quite happily in a dry garage since being put there in 1984 and was successfully re-registered with not a lot of fuss in December 2011, the only fuss was the change from FHC to DHC and the engine CC's change from 1558 to 1998. Change of colour and other stuff was easy, change of engine CC required an invoice for the engine and the FHC to DHC required some pictures, but that's normal whether the car is SORN or Registered anyway.
Kindest regards

Alan Thomas
User avatar
Spyder fan
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2541
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Location: Kent country & Sussex seaside UK

PostPost by: Chancer » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:28 pm

It has one digit less than most, ABC 11J for example but it doesnt sound or look like anything special, no doubt someone somewhere will identify with it but if I am not mistaken its the DVLA that trawls the unused numbers and puts them up for sale rather than Mr ABC looking for a plate for his 11th car isnt that so?

The letter that came with the new V5 did say that some had been stolen but I thought it must have been a joke, i didnt believe that they would seriously re-issue V5s for every car in circulation or on SORN, how many is that, 20 or 30 million? blank MOT's were always being nicked but they never reacted in the same way, to be honest I thought that I was being scammed :lol:

If anyone has one of these blank V5's then I could do with one :wink:
Chancer
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1391
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Location: Northern France/ Sussex UK

PostPost by: AHM » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:15 pm

There appears to be some confusion here...

If you have a V5 you are on the computer. If you are on the computer you are fine, noone can take your reg no. And you can do all of the things you expect to do.

If your car has not been taxed since the introduction of SORN it will show on the Computer as "Unlicensed" rather than SORN not/due or licence not/due. I'm pretty certain that you can't SORN an Unlicensed vehicle and that the DVLA will not therefore send you a reminder. When you next tax it this will change and you will subsequently have to tax or SORN and will get the reminder.

You can check the details Via the DVLA website by entering the make and reg no.

The loss of registration applies to cars that were off the road and the registered keeper did not change the old log book for a V5 and on the computer by the 1982 deadline. There is quite a lot of paperwork to reregister, and more to claim the reg no.

If you have a V5 the car is registered in your name, don't confuse that with the liability (or not) to pay to pay the tax.

As far as I am aware the DVLA only sell unused numbers.

Simon
Last edited by AHM on Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AHM
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1493
Joined: 19 Apr 2004

PostPost by: Spyder fan » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:44 am

Simon,
My car was a one owner since new, he never moved house and never communicated with the DVLA, they sent him the new V5 documents as they came into effect and the V5 that came with the car was dated in the 1970's, the car wasn't taxed since 1982 when it came off the road. The DVLA computer had no knowledge of my car we had to get the details from the microfiche at Swansea to re-register the car.

Just because you have a V5 doesn't mean you are on the computer.
Kindest regards

Alan Thomas
User avatar
Spyder fan
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2541
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Location: Kent country & Sussex seaside UK

PostPost by: Chancer » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:44 am

Having done the vehicle checks before and once again today I can confirm that the Elan does indeed come up as unlicensed.

However the Caterham which is SORN'd cannot be found :roll:
Chancer
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1391
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Location: Northern France/ Sussex UK

PostPost by: elansprint » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:54 am

If the car was off the road when SORN was introduced & has not been licensed since then no SORN is neccessary absolutely stupid just a waste of honest peoples time those who drive without tax and insurance dont give a toss anyway and will carry on doing so.
Ian
elansprint
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 502
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests