Lotus Elan

French registration question

PostPost by: vernon.taylor » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:45 am

Salut

I'd like to register my new +2 as a 'vehicule de collection' and as you know, if you're reading this, cars need to be at least 30 years old. My potential problem: the car is 1971 made but must have been exported and re-imported because the first registration date is August 1981. So, does anyone know if the 30-year minimum is established from the age or from the first registration?

There are obviously solutions but this would/could be the easiest and quickest.

Merci.

Vernon
User avatar
vernon.taylor
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 829
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Vaugneray, France

PostPost by: gherlt » Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:09 pm

Did you check F?d?ration Fran?aise des V?hicules d'Epoque
http://www.ffve.org

Here http://www.ffve.org/?option=com_content ... &Itemid=51
they state:
"L?anciennet? du v?hicule est calcul?e ? partir de l?ann?e de fabrication / mise en circulation."
I would contact Lotus Archives and ask for a confirmation of manufactura date, at least aprox.
1964 S1 (at paint shop)
1967 S3 DHC
1969 S4 FHC (at BB's home)

https://theelanman.com for details on Brian Bucklands book.
https://shop.lotus-books.com for more Lotus related books.
We ship worldwide. PM/Email me.
gherlt
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 639
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Location: Weiden (DE) & Tarragona (ES)

PostPost by: vernon.taylor » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:12 pm

Thanks for answering - yes it's the "l?ann?e de fabrication / mise en circulation" that I've seen elsewhere and in my case ten years seperate the two dates. So which is it is the questuion.
User avatar
vernon.taylor
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 829
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Vaugneray, France

PostPost by: rmd24 » Fri May 06, 2011 6:37 pm

Vernon, do you have a particular reason for wanting to register the car as a vehicule de collection? I registered my S4 ( not as a vehicule de collection) last year with no problem at all. Just got a certificate de conformite from Lotus and it was plain sailing from then on.

Roger.
User avatar
rmd24
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 95
Joined: 27 May 2010
Location: Dordogne, France

PostPost by: vernon.taylor » Sat May 07, 2011 4:02 pm

Hi Roger

Just a couple - black number plates and in the fron grill, cheaper insurance, 5-year CT (MOT) and if the date of manufacture was used instead of the registration date then I wouldn't have to worry about the pollution test.

Also future-proofing for when the government says that all cars on the road must be ten-years old or less - voiture de collection might be the only way out. I mean as part of Renault is privatised it's going to be the taxpayer who has to compensate Renaultgate and to do that a way has to be found to sell more cars at the expense of the taxpayer again.

@+

Vernon
User avatar
vernon.taylor
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 829
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Vaugneray, France

PostPost by: rmd24 » Mon May 09, 2011 9:16 am

Yes, the ten year old thing could be a potential problem, could it really happen? I have old style black plates on mine but in the new format, I really think the rules are applied differently depending on where you go for the CT. Mine was known to be old car friendly.
With voiture de collection registration are you not restricted to your own and adjoining depatments?
User avatar
rmd24
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 95
Joined: 27 May 2010
Location: Dordogne, France

PostPost by: vernon.taylor » Wed May 11, 2011 6:18 am

Hi Roger

No restrictions about where you can go since SIV.

@+

Vernon
User avatar
vernon.taylor
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 829
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Vaugneray, France

PostPost by: vernon.taylor » Tue May 24, 2011 7:04 am

Salut French residents

Car hasn't arrived yet (next week?) but I have the invoice and V5 so I'll be going to the Cit? administrative ths morning to get the VAT certificate.

I'm probably fussing but I'm still undecided about what to do exactly. Seems I have two choices:

1. Use the papers I have. Finality will be that I will have a normal carte grise (which I could change at the end of the year for a carte grise de collection - another ?50). Disadvantages would be that the car would have to pass the anti-pollution test - I called the MOT/CT guys and they said they look at the premi?re mise en circulation (1981) rather than the date of manufacture (1971) even with a letter from Lotus. Also the CG would mention Elan rather than Elan +2(S) and the chassis/VIN would just be 0459L - this, if I remember, has been stamped on the chassis from a previous importation I imagine. I would probably put black plates meaning I would not be street legal until I changed the CG.

2. Write off to the DVLC asking for an export certificate (?5) and corrections. This takes 2-4 weeks I was told. I don't know how they would find a previous registration for the car as records were only computerised in 1981. The VIN, I guess, would be changed - I'd be sending a letter from Lotus to support the corrections - so I hope that wouldn't cause a problem here as the VIN and chassis number would not be the same except for the last 5 digits. Disadvantages would be the wait.

Hmm - I guess I answered my own question. Sometimes helps just to write it down.

Anyone know about temporary plates in france?

@+

Vernon
User avatar
vernon.taylor
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 829
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Vaugneray, France

PostPost by: Old English White » Tue May 24, 2011 8:54 am

vernon.taylor wrote:Salut French residents

Car hasn't arrived yet (next week?) but I have the invoice and V5 so I'll be going to the Cit? administrative ths morning to get the VAT certificate.

I'm probably fussing but I'm still undecided about what to do exactly. Seems I have two choices:

1. Use the papers I have. Finality will be that I will have a normal carte grise (which I could change at the end of the year for a carte grise de collection - another ?50). Disadvantages would be that the car would have to pass the anti-pollution test - I called the MOT/CT guys and they said they look at the premi?re mise en circulation (1981) rather than the date of manufacture (1971) even with a letter from Lotus. Also the CG would mention Elan rather than Elan +2(S) and the chassis/VIN would just be 0459L - this, if I remember, has been stamped on the chassis from a previous importation I imagine. I would probably put black plates meaning I would not be street legal until I changed the CG.

2. Write off to the DVLC asking for an export certificate (?5) and corrections. This takes 2-4 weeks I was told. I don't know how they would find a previous registration for the car as records were only computerised in 1981. The VIN, I guess, would be changed - I'd be sending a letter from Lotus to support the corrections - so I hope that wouldn't cause a problem here as the VIN and chassis number would not be the same except for the last 5 digits. Disadvantages would be the wait.

Hmm - I guess I answered my own question. Sometimes helps just to write it down.

Anyone know about temporary plates in france?

@+

Vernon


Vernon,
As soon you have the car insured, then the V5(less the importation part) and the french "Quitus fiscal" that prouve that the car is used and don't need to have the french"TVA" being paid, you have 28 open days, nearly a month and half, from the date of the "Quitus fiscal" delivery before having to register your car.
So collect the necessary papers first.
Another detail; to get the registration papers, the french"contr?le technique" don't need to be 0 default.
You need to have a car "OK" only when registred and driving it.
My advice is to get a normal "carte grise", if you can have it. As far I know, ther are some restriction driving thru ECE with a "carte grise de collection"...
Christian. :mrgreen:
Image
User avatar
Old English White
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 754
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Location: France

PostPost by: terryp » Tue May 24, 2011 9:11 am

vernon.taylor wrote:2. Write off to the DVLC asking for an export certificate (?5) and corrections. This takes 2-4 weeks I was told. I don't know how they would find a previous registration for the car as records were only computerised in 1981. The VIN, I guess, would be changed - I'd be sending a letter from Lotus to support the corrections - so I hope that wouldn't cause a problem here as the VIN and chassis number would not be the same except for the last 5 digits. Disadvantages would be the wait.
Vernon


Be careful as once they know the car is to be exported , they wash their hands of it!
I would do the corrections and register in your name at a UK address , then import to France on the corrected V5 sending the export marker (from the V5) when required

Also if it were registered in France as a 1981 it would have to pass emissions at the CT (1973 to 1986 < 4.5% CO2) I have to , its not difficult but can be a pain in the bot!

It can be insured in France on UK plates no problem 3rd Party only then converted to Fully Comp when on French plates (If you want fully comp just take out UK Classic car insurance for a few months)

Bon Courage!

Terry
terryp
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1571
Joined: 29 Nov 2007

PostPost by: terryp » Tue May 24, 2011 9:12 am

Old English White wrote:are some restriction driving thru ECE with a "carte grise de collection"...
Christian. :mrgreen: [/b][/i][/color]


Christian - What have you heard?

A+
Terry
terryp
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1571
Joined: 29 Nov 2007

PostPost by: vernon.taylor » Tue May 24, 2011 11:59 am

Thanks guys

So, what if I get my Quitus fiscal the day before I collect the car and then send off for an export certificate from the DVLA and ask for any corrections to be made? I think they might accept a photocopy as you can apply for one without the V5; which means I could show it to any friendly or unfriendly cop who happens to stop me.

@+

Vernon
User avatar
vernon.taylor
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 829
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Vaugneray, France

PostPost by: terryp » Tue May 24, 2011 12:09 pm

Vernon
You don't send off for an export certificate. Its just a purple section on the V5 you send back to the DVLA .......at some point ......in the future ......
Get the corrections done whilst the car is living (technically) in the UK.
Everytime I have gone to the tax office here for a Quitus fiscal they have wanted to see the original V5. Furthermore the Prefecture wants to see an audit trail of ownership i.e its easier if the V5 is in your name.


Good Luck
Terry
terryp
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1571
Joined: 29 Nov 2007

PostPost by: Old English White » Tue May 24, 2011 3:54 pm

terryp wrote:Vernon
You don't send off for an export certificate. Its just a purple section on the V5 you send back to the DVLA .......at some point ......in the future ......
Get the corrections done whilst the car is living (technically) in the UK.
Everytime I have gone to the tax office here for a Quitus fiscal they have wanted to see the original V5. Furthermore the Prefecture wants to see an audit trail of ownership i.e its easier if the V5 is in your name.


Good Luck
Terry

Vernon,
Terry is right.
It is only a small part the seller has to send to the DVLA.
You ll need the original V5 and an invoice or hand written certificat describing the sale between the seller and you, with car details and both adresses etc...
Get the "quitus fiscal" when the car is in France. Not before. This will allow you to drive the car waiting for definitive registration...
I remember having to let the car in the garage for LMC 2004, because the 28 days were gone... the papers arrived on the next monday...
Christian. :mrgreen:
Image
User avatar
Old English White
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 754
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Location: France

PostPost by: vernon.taylor » Tue May 24, 2011 7:21 pm

Christian, Terry

Thanks again. Christian - this is partly the way I'm beginning to think. Keep the papers I've got (V5C minus the seller/export part and an invoice) and use them to get the Quitus fiscal when the car arrives. Check the pollution level and then decide whether to ask DVLA to correct the info on an export certificate (it's what they proposed over the phone - the car is now export marked so they can't issue another V5). They gave a timeline of 2-4 weeks.

@+

Vernon
User avatar
vernon.taylor
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 829
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Vaugneray, France
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests