Chassis number

[EPC 394J]

Has anyone clarified this issue with the authorities recently?

It isn't necessary Grizzly has described the current situation quite well.

Just out of curiosity, does a space frame chassis come with a chassis number of any description? I know Lotus Replacement chassis generally have them. Certainly mine does.

[Grizzly]

Bill, calm down!! i'm not saying you weren't right back in 1978 or whenever you had experience with the DVLA, right now they actually say 'Chassis/Frame/Subframe' to save confusion in the description of the part that holds the suspension and engine..

So then this applies below.......
Note..... 'original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer)'

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration ... d-vehicles

I stand by if you use a New unmodified chassis/subframe the DVLA are fine with it...... only a problem is if you fit a Modified Chassis/Subframe for example a spaceframe.

By the way Spyder cars don't help your cause by having 'Chassis' all over their web site http://www.spydercars.co.uk/lotus-elan- ... over-bars/

I didn't know there was a Note in a Club newsletter, was that official from the DVLA headed explaining it properly that could be used?? or was it just a note in a magazine of a spoken conversation??

I was told by the club that you just don't tell the DVLA of the change!! which sounds a bit suspect to be honest as the DVLA seem to be fine with a LR chassis, maybe they are just covering for the people with Spaceframes?? i don't know.

[69S4]

If that's the weight they put on the various parts I'm surprised the engine is worth so little. It would seem that a car with a Zetec engine is seen as more of an Elan than an otherwise stock car with a Spyder 'chassis'. Change to narrow rear springs at the same time and you're short on registration points.

[Grizzly]

Sorry, telling everyone to read up then not reading it properly myself....... '5 of these points must come from having the original or new and unmodified chassis' so that flat out means a Spyder chassis should be on a Q if i have that right?? but you could Put a 600HP LS V8 in a stock car no problems at all.

[nmauduit]

I was told by the club that you just don't tell the DVLA of the change!!

I don't know about the UK, but if that is an approach that could be effective to put the car on the road, it might also lead to unexptected developments in the case of a costly accident (as most likely the insurance would readily jump on a quick exit route away from his financial responsability)... caveat emptor I suppose

[Craven]

DVLA wonderful place.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... n-criteria

[Grizzly]

Insurance will cover anything and everything you declare...... it's why it's important to be honest when taking out a policy.

It's this line thats the problem if you want to keep your original reg number....... ' 5 of these points must come from having the original or new and unmodified chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame.' which is my point without going off-topic. From this Gov / DVLA page if you think i've altered it in any way https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration ... d-vehicles

[snowyelan]

The way I read that document is that you only need a monocoque bodyshell OR frame. Elans definitely weren't monocoque so....

Hypothetically all you need is a registration, "original" steering rack, "original" suspension, and a new OEM chassis to exceed the 8 pts and register your bitsa???

[rgh0]

The way I read that document is that you only need a monocoque bodyshell OR frame. Elans definitely weren't monocoque so....

Hypothetically all you need is a registration, "original" steering rack, "original" suspension, and a new OEM chassis to exceed the 8 pts and register your bitsa???

I think the point of debate has not changed over the years. You can consider the Elan body to be a monocoque body shell with its ID plate linked to that body and its that body shell that gets you the 5 compulsory points. The subframe is just that a sub frame component for locating the the suspension and engine to the monocoque body shell. At least that was the argument by Arnold back then that the DVLA may have accepted at the time. Whether they do now or not is another matter.

cheers
Rohan

[bitsobrits]

[quote="
Just out of curiosity, does a space frame chassis come with a chassis number of any description? I know Lotus Replacement chassis generally have them. Certainly mine does.[/quote]

My Spyder tube chassis came with a Mgf tag from Spydersport and a SN on the front crossmember.

[Grizzly]

The way I read that document is that you only need a monocoque bodyshell OR frame. Elans definitely weren't monocoque so....

Hypothetically all you need is a registration, "original" steering rack, "original" suspension, and a new OEM chassis to exceed the 8 pts and register your bitsa???

I think the point of debate has not changed over the years. You can consider the Elan body to be a monocoque body shell with its ID plate linked to that body and its that body shell that gets you the 5 compulsory points. The subframe is just that a sub frame component for locating the the suspension and engine to the monocoque body shell. At least that was the argument by Arnold back then that the DVLA may have accepted at the time. Whether they do now or not is another matter.

cheers
Rohan

I'd agree with that if the DVLA didn't describe a monocoque as the Body and Chassis being one unit now and more importantly must not be modified!! that's based on someone from the DVLA not being able to google a picture of a Elan split into Body and chassis or go on the Spyder website. What it comes down to is the DVLA not liking modified parts.

Brings me back to my original point!! there is only a problem if you use a Modified chassis, the DVLA are fine with an LR chassis and as long as you meet the 8 points you will keep your original reg number in the Uk.

It makes me cringe every time i see a buyer's guide recommending a Spyder chassis as a "better option" to an original Lotus design, almost like they haven't looked into it themself.

Note. This is only aplicable in the Uk, i have no idea how the rules stand in other countries.

[englishmaninwales]

If it looks like a chassis, barks like a chassis, then it probably is a chassis. In my view the Lotus Elan chassis is just that and not a subframe (regardless of any club articles/DVLA discussions half a century ago). Also the body certainly isn’t a monocoque.

If you’ve got 8 points including 5 points for an original, LR or another exact pattern chassis then there is no problem for your registration. If you have a non pattern replacement chassis or space frame, in my view you may be at risk of a Q plate if the car ever got inspected by the DVLA. (An inspection can come out of the blue - the DVLA inspected my Caterham in 2019 after a typo got into the chassis number following a V5 re-issue following an engine change in 2005).

Additionally the car will require an annual MOT and above all, letting your insurance company know full detail of the chassis changes is an absolute must. Unless you like a touch of risk in your life.
Malcolm

[Grizzly]

Malcolm, the problem is how do you stand legally?? so if you sell your car fitted with a spaceframe chassis do you have to tell any potential buyers to keep it well away from anything to do with the DVLA as it should be on a Q plate?? (how would that effect the value??) and if you don't, do you leave your self liable for the said buyer to want his money back in the future?? as you say.... if you don't fancy risking being caught driving with no MOT and a tester spots the Spyder chassis plate then enters it in the DVLA database how do you stand?? you can't even plead ignorance because this is the Government we're talking about here and you're expected to read the DVLA website.

Honestly, i just don't like it and would never recommend anything but OEM structurally on any car let alone Elans with the prices going up (too much money involved not to get it right)

[englishmaninwales]

Malcolm, the problem is how do you stand legally?? so if you sell your car fitted with a Spyder chassis do you have to tell any potential buyers to keep it well away from anything to do with the DVLA as it should be on a Q plate?? (how would that effect the value??) and if you don't, do you leave your self liable for the said buyer to want his money back in the future?? you can't even plead ignorance because this is the Government we're talking about here and you're expected to read the DVLA website.

Honestly, i just don't like it and would never recommend anything but OEM structurally on any car let alone Elans with the prices going up (too much money involved not to get it right)

Chris, it would be wise to be clear about the non pattern chassis at sale. In my view it would be unwise to advise a buyer to be evasive with the DVLA. Of course, the value of the car will take a hit.
BTW I’m not anti Spyder (my previous Elan had a Spyder chassis) - I’m not anti Q plate either.
But the insurance companies for both my playthings have a full list of changes away from original specification. This is difficult in the case of the Caterham as original is difficult to define but I have the specification of the car at point of original sale in 1994, so it’s a long list. Even including the brake pad material as not as originally supplied.
Malcolm

[rgh0]

If it looks like a chassis, barks like a chassis, then it probably is a chassis. In my view the Lotus Elan chassis is just that and not a subframe (regardless of any club articles/DVLA discussions half a century ago). Also the body certainly isn’t a monocoque.


Malcolm

Arnold clearly and successfully at the time time argued otherwise. Any other opinion now is not relevant. Its only the opinion of the DVLA currently that matters. Has anyone tested it recently ? Otherwise all this is just idle internet speculation of which there is not shortage

cheers
Rohan