Engine Refuses to Fire - Advice and/or Wizardry Needed

[brandon]

Last fall after driving the +2 with no issues all year, the car decided it did not want to fire. It was about the end of the driving season anyway, so the car was put away for hybernation. In the Spring when I went to get it going, it again refused to fire. Being busy with other things, I decided I had perhaps flooded it and so pulled the plugs to let things evaporate. A week or so later I gave it another go... and the car gave it another no-go.

I worked things back and found the following:

Fuel:
- I have fuel to the carbs, and it is certainly not old (topped up the tank before diagnosing)
- If I spray Quick Start (Ether) in the carbs, there is still no fire.

Ignition:
- I have taken out every plug, cleaned, checked the gap, and checked for spark. The spark seems strong on every plug... although maybe my remembery of what a strong spark looks like is failing.
- Even though I had spark at the plugs, I still checked power to the coil etc., etc.

Being overwhelmed with house/renovation things, I took the car to my local (trusted) mechanic. They managed to get it running, and told me the timing had been way off and that they had replaced the coil. This was bewildering because I never touched the timing, and the coil was only 2 years old (came with the Pertronix). I drove the car home and everything seemed fine, however the next day... nothing.

In the 30+ years I've been working with cars I have never not been able to get something to start, so I am rather frustrated. Obviously there is something I'm missing, so any ideas would be a big help. I'm planning on giving it another go this weekend, and if it doesn't work I'll need to send it out. It's part way through the Summer, and the car has only seen 5kms, with half of that being on my trailer.

Help!!!

1970 Elan +2
Weber head (Stromberg replaced by previous owner)
Pertronix Electronic Ignition kit purchased (from RD Enterprises) and installed in 2013.

Brandon

[mbell]

My first thought was dodgy electronic ignition module but wouldn't have expected a spark if it was that.

I'd pull the cap and check everything looks ok, especially rotor arm and sensor wheel. Then check for spark and re-time.

Is the dizzy securly clamped?

Do you have the old points to test with?

[vincereynard]

If the car drove OK once started then it is unlikely to be fuel problem.

Discounting mechanical horror, that only really leaves the ignition system.

Assuming the "trusted" mechanic is valid and the ignition timing had slipped(??), if the distributor was still
tight, points to the electronic module or pickup has thrown a wobble. Especially if it is totally dead. Not even a cough or fa*t. And you drove it home so the cap / leads etc should be OK.

Worth fitting your old points and giving it a try if possible? Condenser, is a possibility, but I've found that even with a duff one there is still some signs of life.

Good Luck

[brandon]

I've checked the potential mechanical nightmare possibilities. The pistons still go up and down, and the cams round and round so I'm safe there.

I checked the distributor and it is (and was) tight. I had considered the module and condenser, but having the spark baffles me. There are no coughs, sputters or anything. It has effectively become a bicycle pump... assuming I could connect a hose to the exhaust.

I'm going to see if I can dig out the old distributor/points, although they're certainly buried deep in the renovation mess.

Any other ideas are still more than welcome. Is there a way to test the electronic module?

Brandon

[vincereynard]

Brandon,

Having a spark does not necessarily mean it will work under cylinder compression.

I've no idea why, it is just an experience I've had.

One had a non starting Norton Commando with a healthy spark on Lucas Rita Ignition. Reverting to points and away it went.

Anyway worth a try if you have the bits.

[twincamman]

I'll put my money on the halls effect in the distributor. If you have the new wizz bang capasitive discharge distributor and left the power on in the ignition system it is now junk ..we had this problem with the f 2000 cars diagnosing and setting up timing with ignition power on for 2 minutes and the thing is scrap .stick with points and condenser ....... I will not enter Ito any debates on this from other posters .if it wont fire on ether than there is no spark so .. trouble light at the ready ?..check the ignition switch terminals key on ?start ?run ?. check the .tach lead to coil .make sure the power leads every where are hot .. see if the dist wire is broken?... [ do not soldier these connections as the soldier wicks up the wire and the vibrations beak the wire at the most inconvenient times crimp the fitting on ] check lead to coil from the power lead in other words spend some time trouble shooting the ignition system of course theres new plugs in it ?Right ?????oh yes and put all retired teachers on Ignore ?Ed

[twincamman]

Once the electricals are proven we will attack timing so carry on and let us know what you find ....Ed

[PeterK]

My starting problems were due to the ignition switch. At the 'start' position, when the starter was spinning, there was no live feed to the coil. New switch fixed it.
Peter

[twincamman]

whereare you in Ontario??????I could drop by if your close enough

[brandon]

Thanks for all the responses again. Unfortunately I've been down with the flu and some pneumonia to boot. Just on the rebound now, so hopefully I'll be able to get at things this weekend.

I'm in Waterdown Ed.

Brandon

[Matt Elan]

Try new plugs, current ones seem to foul a lot easier as the glaze on the insulator spent extend all the way up to the plug body.