Certificate of Provenance - anyone got one yet?

[garyeanderson]

http://www.lotuscars.com/us/ownership/c ... provenance

"We are pleased to offer the Certificate of Provenance service to Lotus car owners. The certificate and covering letter detail how the car left Lotus and are available for all models from the Lotus Seven onwards.

The certificate will include (depending upon information available) the full VIN, model and variant, the original engine and gearbox serial numbers, body and trim colours, options, build date and the original dealer/distributor dispatched to.

For an additional fee on top of the certificate charge, it can be possible to include where your car comes in the build sequence for that market and model and how many others there were in the same colour/trim combination. Please contact Andy Graham in Lotus Archives at [email protected] or telephone +44 1603 732178."

I'm not sure what you may receive but hopefully it will be a good thing for everyone.

Gary

[elj221c]

Thanks Gary, not grumpy with you but.....

For an additional fee on top of the certificate charge........

I can't see any charge or additional fee quoted. Why can't they do that? I does so annoy me!

I got something similar from Maurcice Storey in 2000 for the price of a stamp!

The certificate will include (depending upon information available) .......

There ain't much info about for a lot of our cars, sadly.

I'm not sure what you may receive but hopefully it will be a good thing for everyone.

It all sounds like a 'money spinner' to me. I'll stick with my signed piece of paper from Maurice.

[garyeanderson]

Hi Roy

It's worth what it's worth! Some of us have "numbers matching" cars and some of us don't. To those that don't and enjoy the cars that they own, to drive and do what ever they want. The new "Certificate of Provenance" will be something that someone can wave in someone else's face and say "see, mine is a real bla-bla" I have an S3 SE that Lotus does not know whether it is or not, they do not know if its a Coupe or Drop head Coupe, the head and block are in two different Elans. Does it matter to me, Hell no, I just want to drive. Will someone pay a premium for knowing that it is as it left Lotus 45 years ago? I am sure some one might but that is not what I bought it for when I bought it. Lotus, I believe sees some money to be made and I hope that Andy can make a go of it. I feel bad that those in the past saw no value in keeping a record of things but they somehow lost what they had (Flood I believe I heard). I know Andy has worked hard to find that info again because I have sent him much of what Frank Bertrang had given away to everyone for there own use. If it makes what I have less valuable thats life, I am not about waving paper, I want to see cars and I want to see cars DRIVEN. Driven hard preferably and with much enjoyment to those that are driving them. There are some that don't get out and enjoy what they have but I do and I like telling folks about it. The "what does your Elan/Pluis2 look like today" topic is not to brag but to show folks that these cars do get out and are enjoyed. My sows ear topic is not going to get much out of "Certificate of Provenance" but the grin factor is far higher than any silly piece of paper could ever provide to me. We all do what we do to enjoy life and if having that piece of paper makes you feel good or makes you think your car is better than mine, spend the money, frame it and smile. I am waiting for the weather to clear up on Friday to get in a drive (maybe go and see Bill Fortini's Type 62 clone) and get some more photos of it down on the ground.

Gary

[elansprint71]

Can't wait to see the info on 26/Rs. Lat time I was in touch they did not know their collective arses from a series of holes in the ground.

Ferrari Classiche makes a fortune issuing certificates of provenance, not quite the same thing for plastic kit-cars, methinks.

[gjz30075]

Ferrari Classiche makes a fortune issuing certificates of provenance, not quite the same thing for plastric kit-cars, methinks.

I'm afraid Pete's got it right. The PHS (for Pontiacs), SAAC ( for Shelbys), The Marti Report (for Mustangs), and I'm sure there are others, are all hugely popular and important for resale. We're just a different crowd, that's all.

I'll probably get one because I like this sort of thing.

Greg Z

[elj221c]

Hi Roy
..... if having that piece of paper makes you feel good or makes you think your car is better than mine....

Err, don't think so! Sows Ear is much closer to the road than my sad Elan. And you have another as a 'daily driver'!

I'll probably get one because I like this sort of thing. Greg Z

Yes I do too but in my case it wouldn't increase the value of the car (if that was important to me) as it's pretty individual/wierd anyway. At the time it did make me slightly more comfortable about my duplicate logbook!

If you go ahead you could reveal the charge and the extra fee!

[Spyder fan]

Official reply from Andy Graham recently:

Dear Alan,

Information left is limited the following for your Lotus Elan Plus 2S with VIN 50/1703, original engine number was F19112 and it left Lotus on the 17th July 1969 to the original dealer Charlie Oates Ltd. in Yealand, Lancashire.

I have no records for the Elan S4.

As you have helped me, there is no charge.

Andy Graham - Technical Publications and Archives

I must say that Andy is extremely helpful and will generally assist free of charge with the UK vehicle registration body (DVLA) if you have a problem with VIN numbers or previous keepers changing the Chassis number, or even as in my case getting my S4 correctly registered when from day one back in 1971 it was just registered as a Lotus (no model type) with the wrong colour and only partial VIN number.

Edit:- sorry, to answer the question, I haven't bought a certificate of provenance for the +2, not sure if it's at all meaningful or useful to my cars, it would perhaps be worthwhile if you had a matching numbers early car or a "genuine" 26R?

[elansprint71]

I must make it clear that Andy Graham has been very helpful with my more recent enquiries about my own cars, (as have the DVLA)- my query about 26/Rs was way before Andy's time. They seemed not really even sure what I was talking about.

[adigra]

I had a brief chat with Andy, and he was very nice and very helpful. Unfortunately they don't have much info on the earlier cars past the stuff I already have (engine number, etc.). But I was really pleasantly surprised by how nice and patient he was.

Adi

[Jason1]

There are no prices on the webpage?

I may be tempted if it is cheap enough.

[Jason1]

Mine came this morning.

I am happy with it. It cost ?25 which I think is reasonable.

Info you get on the Cert:

VIN
Engine number
Date left factory
Model
Body colour (mine was not recorded)
Trim colour (mine not recorded)
Original Dealer/ Country
Lotus Invoice Number

In the letter it also states that the car was supplied in kit form.

I do not think this cert will increase the value of the car but it is something interesting to frame and hang on the wall.

Jason

[nebogipfel]

.....I am happy with it. It cost ?25 which I think is reasonable......

You are very easily pleased Jason


PS.
I've got 500 sheets of A4 on offer, there's not much on them either but you can have the lot at ?1/sheet ....now that must be a bargain

[trw99]

John

I suspect that in time our car's entire provenance will become increasingly important, particularly to potential buyers. Some other marques are already there and historic racing is pretty much there too.

I don't want to turn this into another discussion on classic car values! However, it strikes me that most Elan owners (but not all) these days are interested in knowing who has owned their car in the past and, it would follow, in what form it originally left the factory. It helps to complete the picture and along with past invoices, MOTs and so forth enhances the overall 'value' of the car to potential owners. Thus it follows that as time goes on buyers might increasingly expect this sort of information to come with their new purchase.

Having said that, I happen to be running out of paper here in my office ....

Tim

[nebogipfel]

John

I suspect that in time our car's entire provenance will become increasingly important, particularly to potential buyers. Some other marques are already there and historic racing is pretty much there too.

I don't want to turn this into another discussion on classic car values! However, it strikes me that most Elan owners (but not all) these days are interested in knowing who has owned their car in the past and, it would follow, in what form it originally left the factory. It helps to complete the picture and along with past invoices, MOTs and so forth enhances the overall 'value' of the car to potential owners. Thus it follows that as time goes on buyers might increasingly expect this sort of information to come with their new purchase.

Having said that, I happen to be running out of paper here in my office ....

Tim

I have no argument with any of that Tim

I am interested in the history of my car and hope we all are. I was simply hinting that the information which was available freely is now offered as a certificate at a frankly exorbitant (IMO) price. If a charge has to be made and I think ?25 is far too much the funds would be better going to CLES rather than Lotus (IMO of course)

On that subject, and I know it's something dear to your heart, are plans being made to preserve the historical information (scant though it is) when Lotus inevitably goes under?

PS I'll do the paper post free as it's you

[twincamman]

why not just wait until whoever is producing the new micro feish has done his job ? ed