Tariffs!

[rgh0]

I started this thread with the only intention of forecasting whight lay ahead of us in the EU buying parts for our Elans! Continuing on this theme sorting through the myriad of small businesses in the UK who are still not ready or just throwing the towel in, our situation re parts is now clear:

We do not pay any tarrifs thankfully. I had a quick word with SJ and Sue Millar and both will continue sending to the EU. As they send to the US, Australia and SA, it is no hardship, although Sue did say that no delivery company thus far is accepting orders for EU delivery, but she believes this is short term.

Both will send parts VAT free plus delivery charges as they are given to them at the time,

On arival in France, the delivery carriers will act as customs agents and collect the TVA due to France for which there will be a transaction charge. Note that TVA will be applied to not only the parts but also on the transaction charge whatever they might be.

It will cost! I remember from my US muscle car days in the UK, I had some eye watering 'transaction' charges, yet much of the time, the parts were delivered straight to my door without any VAT requests!

Happy days!
https://www.chronopost.fr/en/import-0

To get back to the original topic. Tariffs on maintenance components tend to drive down the capital value of a used car in the country which applies the tariffs. Hence Lotus in Australia tend to get sold to USA / UK as their capital value is lower than in those countries. Also sold into Japan but that market is driven by very different forces. The world keeps running and if you're focused on driving your car rather than its economic worth it all makes not much difference.

I experience all the "fees and charges" issue here sourcing components from USA or UK or the mark ups local suppliers can charge to be competitive.

cheers
Rohan

[alan.barker]

Only my personal opinion as i consider myself as a European and i like freedom of travel.
For me it's a pity Cameron did a referendum as there had been one in the past and the result was to stay in the EU.
My Personal opinion only but it's a pity that the UK did not adopt the Euro the same time as the rest of the EU. To me this would have given a solid currency to balance against the Dollar etc.
Alan

[HCA]

Rohan - I appreciate that you, and others in Australia could maybe write a book on tarrifs!

Interesting your theory on reduction of capital values though. I never looked on it in that way when I was importing from the US. I just always put it down to the questionable build of 60s and 70s muscle cars that fitted nicely into my budgets at the time!

All this stuff with the UK being a third country as the EU describes, is new to most of us and frankly a bit of a shock. I hope the extra VAT and handling charges will not end up driving down the values here, although I do believe that most are in it for the fun...

[EPC 394J]

Hi Alan. As you realise, this is highly misleading.

For me it's a pity Cameron did a referendum as there had been one in the past and the result was to stay in the EU

There was no referendum to either enter or remain in the EU until Cameron in 2016. The EU is a political project, a country under construction. The UK joined a trading bloc called the EC (Common Market) in 1973 without a referendum. In 1975 Harold Wilson honoured a manifesto pledge to offer a referendum on continued membership in that trading bloc, the Common Market. That was 41 years before 2016.

The problem is, was and always has been, the UK joined a cricket club, which some other players turned into a very expensive football club whilst on tour in Maastricht in 1992.

Though I do feel your pain for the perceived ‘unnecessary’ inconvenience of democratic process which delivered (for you) the ‘wrong’ result. A process the EU tries extremely hard to avoid being inconvenienced by! That could be called it’s democratic deficit.

My Personal opinion only but it's a pity that the UK did not adopt the Euro the same time as the rest of the EU.

Ah. The ‘golden handcuffs’ which pretty much tie a nation to the EU project in perpetuity.

If it’s any consolation, Sterling is materially undervalued at the moment, which will inevitably drive inward investment to the UK. Give it a few months and Sterling is quite likely to recover nicely against the Euro. Improving your pension income. It will of course make your Lotus spares more expensive, whilst making all imports to us from the EU relatively cheaper.

But of course this is all water under the bridge chaps. We are where we are. Can we now just put this all behind us and get on with it?

It seems to me we/you have no other choice?

Oh. Of course Brexiteers are ‘European’ too. It’s a geographical term.

[alan.barker]

"1975: UK embraces Europe in referendum
British voters have backed the UK's continued membership of the European Economic Community by a large majority in the country's first nationwide referendum.
Just over 67% of voters supported the Labour government's campaign to stay in the EEC, or Common Market, despite several cabinet ministers having come out in favour of British withdrawal."

"The result was later hailed by Prime Minister Harold Wilson as a "historic decision".
This was before 2016 the first Referendum to stay in Europe i was talking about.
Alan

[EPC 394J]

Precisely as I said. Not connected to the European Union in any way shape or form. Cameron’s was the first time that project had ever been referred to the citizens of the UK. They expressed their view. Thank you.

I rest my case.

[alan.barker]

Wiki quote:
"The European Economic Community, or EEC, was founded in 1957 by 6 countries. It now has 27 members and is known as the European Union. So there is no real difference as such. The EU is just the modern name for what was the EEC"
"I rest my case" your Honor

[englishmaninwales]

Wiki quote:
"The European Economic Community, or EEC, was founded in 1957 by 6 countries. It now has 27 members and is known as the European Union. So there is no real difference as such. The EU is just the modern name for what was the EEC"
"I rest my case" your Honor

Unfortunately, Alan, Wiki suffers with that old problem of “b@llocks in - b@llocks out”
Malcolm.

[EPC 394J]

I’d recommend you read up about the Treaty of Maastricht before making the frankly ludicrous equivalence between the Common Market and the European Union project.

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/explainers/tell-me-more/html/25_years_maastricht.en.html

This is what paved the way for the country now under construction currently called the European Union. Equipping the executive with many additional powers such as a common foreign policy and a common currency, (amongst many others!) previously controlled at national levels. Who knows where it might lurch next, but it’s underway, if now a little short of generous UK finance to fund it’s political largesse.

At the time, only three countries offered their citizens referenda on this land grab. (So far, so predictable for the EU!) Of whom only two voted in favour. One being France who voted by 51% to 49%. (Probably thanks largely to the CAP ‘bung’ which preserves their tranquil rural life. Nothing wrong with that!) But as we know 51% is perfectly acceptable to carry the day, isn’t it?

All this of course only 12 short months after that other great trans-national Union, the USSR collapsed!

It took a further 24 years before the UK population had it’s say on Maastricht! But now that’s done. It’s old news.

[alan.barker]

The Uk did not only give money to the EU they also recieved money.
It was not just a oneway cash flow.
I hope for the UK Brexit was a good decision. Before without adopting the Euro they were always sitting on the Fence. Better to make a decision than none.
I wish good luck to both sides.
Let's get the Covid problem fixed
Alan

[Pjr]

The interesting point is that whereas leaving required immense ‘process’, subsequent UK governments will be able to (re)commit the UK incrementally to all sorts of obligations as the periodic reviews and renegotiations occur according to the terms of the deal.

Therefore, as governments change I suspect that pragmatism, possibly underpinned by public support (or indifference) will lead to the reinstatement of a number of the benefits/obligations of membership.

In the end, I expect Brexiteers will continue to be contented in having terminated EU membership and Remainers will become happier on the basis that many of the facets of EU membership will reappear through a plethora of bilateral agreements.

The other fascinating issue will be what happens if the PM (or replacement) loses the parliamentary majority at the next election. With SNP possibly the kingmakers (but unlikely to back the government) the likelihood of another independence referendum might increase.

Interesting times......

[UAB807F]

The Uk did not only give money to the EU they also recieved money.
It was not just a oneway cash flow.
I hope for the UK Brexit was a good decision. Before without adopting the Euro they were always sitting on the Fence. Better to make a decision than none.
I wish good luck to both sides.
Let's get the Covid problem fixed
Alan

The only problem with the first statement is that yes, the UK did receive financial grants from the EU but, significantly, even with the famous Maggie Thatcher "rebate" they were always less than the subscription fees. For the entire duration the UK were net contributors.

But on a more positive note, I do agree with your second points. The UK has become an increasingly uncomfortable partner in the EU project and I firmly believe that once the dust settles we'll all see that it was the time to part ways. We'll still trade together, still support each other on common ideals but we won't be marriage partners.

And more importantly the EU can accelerate towards the unity it desires without the UK dragging back and continually asking for special treatment, vetoes or opt-outs.

The Euro is a great example of this, we were never going to adopt the currency and as you say we'd forever be outsiders, not fully committed to the project.

If you're interested in why not, I would recommend Mervyn King's book "End of Alchemy", mostly about the financial crash but with an interesting take on the euro and what he (and the then Bank of England) considers essential for it's long term stability. Spoiler alert - Germany won't like it

Brian

[alan.barker]

Thanks Brian,
i agree it's best to be either IN or OUT.
We can continue with the "ENTENT CORDIAL" mon ami.
Talking about money many years ago when i was a wee boy i seem to remember going to the shops with a Scottish Bank Note and the Shopkeeper didn't want to know it .
Alan

[phil1800]

To come back to the topic of this post: Tariffs. Most people, including all of part merchands seem to be misinformed about tariffs in EU from 2021 on.
If you buy parts in the UK, there are several thresholds that are applied. These are different within EU countries, but should be more or less similar. The tariff rules for Germany are:
Shipments worth up to €22- no VAT, no tariff
Shipments up to €150- VAT is charged, no tariff
Shipment above €150- VAT is charged (19%), tariff is charged as with any other country outside EU.
For vehicle parts these are 4- 5%, so not that much. Other tariffs are much higher, for example 19,5 % for bikes or 10% for cars.
If your shipment is send by DHL, Hermes, FedEx, TNT, etc. there are additional costs: They charge for the customs declaration, financing cost for VAT/ tariffs, handling fees and so on.
I ordered parts for Sue in December. Unfortunately, she only shipped them in January. Parts bill was £220, plus £25 shipping. The bill from TNT was €115: VAT €66, tariffs €13, ‚financing‘ €14.5, Handling charge €25.

Time to do the math: Prior to Brexit, I would have paid £245 or €325 total (strong pound these days). Post Brexit this is €386 or about 19-20% more!!
I think this is substantial and advise any EU buyer to check with his parts dealer, how they handle it, what are the additional costs of the shipper. I am no import expert, but shipments from outside Europe worth more than €150 end up in the local customs office, where you have to pick it up. They charge VAT and tariff as well, but no additional costs, other than your costs getting there.

I hope this is helpful for you guys

Philipp

[h20hamelan]

And when does the IRA show up to smuggle stuff in and out?