Russia

[rgh0]

What an odd comment, have you not been paying attention at all?

In case you missed it previously, I clearly stated what the reasoning is behind Russia’s military operation. First and foremost it is a response to the direct threat from Nato’s hostile expansion eastward and the US’s desire for regime change in Moscow.

I’m not a fan of Putin at all but I can fully understand why he has reacted like he has when the very existence of Russia is under threat. You only have to look at what happened to the likes of Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Syria or Yugoslavia to realise those threats are very real.

Time will tell, of course, who is on the right side. I, for one, never believed the bs about Saddam having WMD and their existence being the reason to flatten Iraq, like the vast majority of the brainwashed people believed.

I’m sure many people are happy that the West exerted its authority in overthrowing the Iraqi government, killing hundreds of thousands in the process and are flexing their muscle again in Ukraine.

You may be one of them, but I’m not!

Ok so disregarding the "historical" arguments in the above for the basis of your justification for Putins invasion which can be contradicted in multiple ways depending on which date and version of history you want to choose. The reason for the Ukraine invasion as I understand it from Russia was Putins fear of a Nato invasion of Russia so he chose a premptive strike.

Nato expanded eastwards because it has an open door policy and democracies freeded from the yoke of USSR choose to align with Europe and Nato to get improved security from future Russian threats. Russia appears to dislike countries doing this. However none of that justifies an invasion of Ukraine which was not a member of Nato and was clearly no threat to Russia. If Russia did not like Nato it should have taken on Nato not Ukraine. But maybe I am simplistic and dont understand geopolitics. However if you can explain why Ukraine was a threat to the might of Russia I would like to hear it.

The outcome of Putins master strategy of a premptive strike against a non Nato state fo Ukraine has been to solidifiy Natos presence on his borders and bring the Ukraine also effectively into the Nato fold, so it does not appear to have worked to well does it ?

If not then give me another reason why Russia invaded Ukraine and we can discuss that. Putin has given many reasons ( nazis, antichrists, ethnic cleansing etc) so please state all that you believe so we can table the data

[alan.barker]

Hi Ashley,
Could i have your comments on what i posted about Russia Stalin in 1932 to 1933 please. The 5 million Ukraines who were shot or starved or genocide commited.
Thanks in advance
Alan
Ps. iraq and Libyia could be a different .
post/blog i've visited Libyia, Yemen and Jordan

[rgh0]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94bqk8cB9iQ

This one hour analysis by "Perun" of the strategic situation that has just been posted is worth watching and thinking about as it explains my position much more eloquently and in much more detail than I can. If you dont understand some of the Aussie humour in it I am happy to explain. If you disagree with any of it I would love to hear your detailed analysis that contradicts anything in its contents.

In summary it says.... whether Russia wins or looses at a tactical level in Ukraine, it will have lost the geopolitical strategic conflict that it set out to try to influence by its invasion of Ukraine

cheers
Rohan

PS.... Mr Putin ... all i can say is read it and weep

[AshleyPark]

Rohan

I don’t know what part of my previous answer you find so hard to understand, it couldn’t be much clearer!

What’s important here though, with such high stakes involved, is to appreciate WHERE we are now and not get bogged down so much in HOW we got here!

With Nato member countries pouring tanks and missiles into Ukraine and the possibility of fighter planes being sent there in the near future there is a real danger of the war escalating into one which is fought over Russia and throughout Europe. It’s not a prospect I relish, do you?

You can see how the US/Nato is operating, step by step, to take out Russia. First there were sanctions then more and more offensive weapons, including tanks and soon aircraft. The game plan is becoming more obvious as time goes by.

In order to defeat Russia, the West needs an army on the ground of at least a million troops plus all the artillery and backup, that amount of force could never be put in place quickly, so what we are seeing now is this steady build up of resources to the main battlefield. It’s clever, and ensures the easily led public are brought along with it.

It has always been the plan to take down Russia but If you want to believe Nato’s purely a benign defensive organisation that’s fine, that’s up to you.

We shall see.

[rgh0]

Rohan

I don’t know what part of my previous answer you find so hard to understand, it couldn’t be much clearer!

What’s important here though, with such high stakes involved, is to appreciate WHERE we are now and not get bogged down so much in HOW we got here!

With Nato member countries pouring tanks and missiles into Ukraine and the possibility of fighter planes being sent there in the near future there is a real danger of the war escalating into one which is fought over Russia and throughout Europe. It’s not a prospect I relish, do you?

You can see how the US/Nato is operating, step by step, to take out Russia. First there were sanctions then more and more offensive weapons, including tanks and soon aircraft. The game plan is becoming more obvious as time goes by.

In order to defeat Russia, the West needs an army on the ground of at least a million troops plus all the artillery and backup, that amount of force could never be put in place quickly, so what we are seeing now is this steady build up of resources to the main battlefield. It’s clever, and ensures the easily led public are brought along with it.

It has always been the plan to take down Russia but If you want to believe Nato’s purely a benign defensive organisation that’s fine, that’s up to you.

We shall see.

I Understand fully your position but struggle to extract any logic from it than cannot and has not been countered. Please view the Perun presentation and tell me whats parts you disagree with and then we can continue the discussion.

There are 40 million Ukrainians opposed to the Russian invasion so creating the needed army is not the problem. It is equipping it with the needed arms and that takes Western resolve. Ukraine does not need Nato troops it just needs arms to defend itself. As some one said "I dont need transport i just need Ammo". You may believe the plan is to "take Russia down" but that is not likely and not possible unless Russia chooses to destroy itself which it is doing a good job of. Again watch the Perun presentation to understand better

[AshleyPark]

You miss my point. The US wants to eradicate Russia, defending Ukraine is just the pretext!

[alan.barker]

Not realy revelant NATO is not invading Russia but helping a country to defend it's homelands.
Please David ,
can you reply to my request concerning Stalin Famine caused in 1932/33 Ukraine. 5 million died or is it an off target subject ( CHASSE GARDE) " mon Ami".

Alan
Ps. Russia is trying to eradicate Ukraine for a second time since Stalin "mon ami"

[rgh0]

View the Perun video where he debunks this position and tell me where its wrong

[AshleyPark]

Hi Alan

I'm sorry but believe it or not I'm no expert on Stalin!

Again, I feel we should be concentrating on the present and how we can end this futile war.

Yes Putin was wrong to invade Ukraine (although it was understandable, in my view) escalating the war against him is not the answer.

Negotiations with all parties need to be started now before it's too late!

[AshleyPark]

I'm not sure what it is you're expecting me to take away from that video? There are many points that are clearly debatable when viewed from a different perspective.

But if it's that Russia has lost no matter what happens in Ukraine then I totally agree. Putin was backed into a corner, a lose, lose situation.

The West have played their hand perfectly, whatever Putin did in response to the threat of Nato expansion he loses. If he invades Ukraine, the end game is a Nato build up and eventual invasion of Russia. If he does nothing, Nato/US invade Russia at some point in the future under some other pretext.

I think the US was hoping for the latter so they would have had more time to work on undermining the Russian government from within.

The only wild card is whether the war escalates to one where nuclear weapons are deployed but I doubt that.

[alan.barker]

Putin is the one escalating the War/Invasion and many think a second massive attack will happen. Maybe he thinks it's just a game of Chess and you can just sacrifice a few thousand Pawns.
Imho Putin needs to admit that Invading Ukraine was a mistake but impossible for him.
Everyone can make mistakes but only a very few admit it. If someone admits they have made a mistake i can admire them
To repeat Ukraine are defending homelands to stop the War/Invasion.

David,
Stalin was Russia and it's history is what has made it as it is today. History is the seeds for today.
There is no Nato invasion of Russia just imagined ideas in Putin's ego as far as i know correct me please if wrong.

Alan

[UAB807F]

Again, I feel we should be concentrating on the present and how we can end this futile war.

Yes Putin was wrong to invade Ukraine (although it was understandable, in my view) escalating the war against him is not the answer.

Negotiations with all parties need to be started now before it's too late!

The simplest and quickest way for this war to end is for Russia to stop firing missiles at civilians and leave Ukraine. No negotiations required, just get out of a country where Russia wasn't invited and has done it's best to bomb it into the dark ages over the last 12 months.

At that point any talk about NATO and the US pursuing this war against Russia would cease. The USA has already made it clear that Ukraine won't (at this time) be retaliating by taking the war to civilians in Moscow and there's no indication that anyone (NATO/USA/Ukraine) would pursue a war into pre 2014 Russian territory.

You may consider the west are escalating this war but from what the evidence shows, it is a defensive operation to help Ukraine restore it's borders and repel an invading force. You might not like that, but that's how it's looking to the 180+ nations in the UN.

Support Russia and Putin's viewpoint by all means, it's a free country and I couldn't care less. But for heaven's sake don't try to convince me that poor old Putin is the hard done by party in this escapade.

As for the expansion of NATO you seem to be overlooking that NATO membership is voluntary and countries ask to be admitted and their acceptance is dependent on a vote by existing members. The only way NATO can expand is if people want to join and they only do that when they feel threatened. Guess where the threats originate ?

[alan.barker]

Bravo UAB807F,
I take my hat off to you Sir
Thankyou, you are spot on
Alan

[nomad]

Ukraine was a corrupt but free and reasonably peaceful country till it let the right wing Banderas Nazi's take over.

When Kosovo pulled away from Serbia, a Russian ally, the UN, controlled now by the US, said that was fine and Serbia had no recourse but to let Kosovo go and join the EU. When the Donbas and Donetsk states wanted to pull away from Ukraine and declare themselves independent and ultimately an ally of Russia then all hell breaks loose. Who is right here????? It should be both ways?! Ukraine has been shelling the separatist states since 2014 and has killed a claimed 14000 civilians! Russia wanted to avoid conflict and abided by the Minx agreement, which Ukraine ignored.

It is pretty obvious to me who is in the right and who is in the wrong in this mess but then I have been avoiding the western Propaganda! This unbelievable control of the western media!!!!! I can't believe how bad it is! The USSR failed when no one would believe the Propaganda anymore.....how long is it going to take for you folks to stop listening to it?

We went all out against Syria because of a trumped up false flag gas attack but when Ukraine uses gas and shows it to our press it says nothing! When it is proven that the US blew up the Nor stream pipeline our press says nothing! When people rally against the war our press isn't there! The west now has the greatest Propaganda machine ever imagined! Is it money that is running it??? Is it the threat of the deep state???Start looking at the facts. The Ukrainians have been shelling civilians! The Ukrainians have been using weapons banned by the UN including petal mines indiscriminately launched into civilian areas along with rockets launched intentionally at market places during the busiest time of the day. Russia plans on these areas being Russian. Why would they intentionally harm civilians? Ukraine sees they are loosing these areas so they have no problem with spite.

[rgh0]

Ukraine was a corrupt but free and reasonably peaceful country till it let the right wing Banderas Nazi's take over.

When Kosovo pulled away from Serbia, a Russian ally, the UN, controlled now by the US, said that was fine and Serbia had no recourse but to let Kosovo go and join the EU. When the Donbas and Donetsk states wanted to pull away from Ukraine and declare themselves independent and ultimately an ally of Russia then all hell breaks loose. Who is right here????? It should be both ways?! Ukraine has been shelling the separatist states since 2014 and has killed a claimed 14000 civilians! Russia wanted to avoid conflict and abided by the Minx agreement, which Ukraine ignored.

It is pretty obvious to me who is in the right and who is in the wrong in this mess but then I have been avoiding the western Propaganda! This unbelievable control of the western media!!!!! I can't believe how bad it is! The USSR failed when no one would believe the Propaganda anymore.....how long is it going to take for you folks to stop listening to it?

We went all out against Syria because of a trumped up false flag gas attack but when Ukraine uses gas and shows it to our press it says nothing! When it is proven that the US blew up the Nor stream pipeline our press says nothing! When people rally against the war our press isn't there! The west now has the greatest Propaganda machine ever imagined! Is it money that is running it??? Is it the threat of the deep state???Start looking at the facts. The Ukrainians have been shelling civilians! The Ukrainians have been using weapons banned by the UN including petal mines indiscriminately launched into civilian areas along with rockets launched intentionally at market places during the busiest time of the day. Russia plans on these areas being Russian. Why would they intentionally harm civilians? Ukraine sees they are loosing these areas so they have no problem with spite.

An interesting view of the world and to try to address some of the points raised

Lets start with casualties in the Donbas 2014 to 2022. The oft quoted 14000 number is total numbers with the vast majority being soldiers fighting . The number of civilians killed on both sides was very very small as a resulting of shelling by both sides according to UN observer accounts.

Next since you dont read 'western propoganda" I presume you only read Russian propoganda as your source of information which clealry you have a reason to trust,... please explain as most of their claims are obviosuly false? I dont believe it is probably a good way to get a balanced view of whats going on. Go and spend about 30 hours watching all the Perun powerpoint videos to get an unbiased data driven analysis and avoid the extremes of propoganda

The Ukrainians dont have shells to waste on civilians and dont have long range rockets and do not attack russian civilians. So to try to paint Ukraine as the aggressor against civilians compared to Russia is stretching it I think.

I guess Russian is planning on Bakmut being Russian in the future thus they had to destroy it to liberate it just as they did in other cities

The rest of the absurb claims you made have no data to back them up as far as i can find.

In the end Russia invaded with no justification except Putins dreams of empire and what you posted provides no rational verifiable data to argue otherwise.

One final comment .. I have heard that Russia could quickly denazify Ukraine tommorrow by withdrawing the Wagner forces !