Steering Rack Issue?

[Tmac897]

Hi,

I installed the front suspension and steering rack a while ago so I could have a rolling chassis to maneuver in my garage. Before I took the old tie rod ends off, I counted and recorded the turns on the lock nut so I could return to the original position and work from there.

When I got everything connected I did notice that I had a toe out condition, but I wrongly assumed that when the engine went in, the front end would compress the suspension a bit, and I could adjust from there. Nope.

Now before I get the body back on, I wanted to try and adjust for bump steer. So I figured I better get the rest of the steering set up properly. Just to get an idea, I took a rough measure from the bead on the rim, front and rear. It’s almost a full inch difference - 42” front of rim, 41” back of rim. I certainly don’t have enough thread left at the tie rod end to account for that.

Any ideas on what could be wrong? My knowledge of suspensions and steering is pretty limited.

I will attach some picks, although the light is not great. If you need a better pick, let me know.

Best,
Tony

[bitsobrits]

Your new tie rod ends are likely longer than the originals. A common problem. Either source the correct spec or cut the new ones down Your photo seems to indicate you have the longer version.

As for the toe changing with weight, there should be very little to zero change from full droop to ride height. Otherwise something is amiss.

To check/correct bump steer you will need to have the dampers/springs removed so you can cycle the suspension through its range of motion. You are looking for as near to zero deflection as you can get through about +/- 2" from ride height. I use a single dial gauge on the (preferably new and true) brake disc, but to do so you need to have the wheel bearings set with no play or you'll be chasing your tail around. You can also index off of a mounted wheel with a bit of flat stock mounted to the wheel. Real racers have plates designed to mount in place of the wheels. Some use two indicators, one fore and one aft. So multiple ways to get there. There are probably decent videos on Youtube. But you don't need a bunch of equipment to get very close to zero bump steer, if you are thoughtful about what you are doing.

[Tmac897]

Thanks for the info. I thought that might be the problem myself. The first set of tie rod ends I got from Dave Bean were HUGE and I could see immediately that they were problematic. I returned those and got these as a replacement. Still too big I guess, but I just wanted to make sure that I hadn’t done anything untoward.

On the bump steer front, I was intending to use the “white board method” from the archives. I did read that the suspension had to be “freewheeling” to measure properly, but thanks for making sure I knew.

Best,
Tony

[Tmac897]

An update to above…

After doing a bit more reading of previous posts dealing with this issue, I measured my tie rods and they are in fact standard Lotus at 6.75”

I thought I might have had a Spitfire rack, or other replacement parts that might have made this a tighter fit, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. So I would have to conclude that differences in frame sizes contributes to this not uncommon issue. Hard to believe that there could be that large a tolerance in frame sizes, but I guess seeing is believing.

There were various surgeries mentioned as potential solutions to this problem, none of which seemed all that appealing. However, someone mentioned that the MG Midget tie rod ends were smaller than the ones usually installed on an Elan.

I located two on eBay, and for $20 including shipping it looked like a relatively painless route to try. So the new tie rod ends are en route from California and should be here mid next week. If anyone wants a link to the seller on eBay, please PM me. But I did find them pretty easily searching for “MG Midget tie rod.”

[Andy8421]

Its slightly difficult to see from the picture, but the track rod end is supposed to line up with the cuttout on the disc backplate so that the rubber on the joint itself is pretty close to the disc.

Yours don't seem to line up, and seem to be a long way from the disc. Have you got the right steering arms fitted?

Picture here (of a plus2) shows the proximity of the joint to the disc and the cuttout:

[Tmac897]

It doesn’t show up in the pic, but the head of the tie rod end is well into the cutout in the plate and very close to the disc.

[vstibbard]

Some after market tie rod ends are different overall length and depth of thread to OEM parts. I found out the hard way with a pair front eBay.
Compare them to one’s your removed.

[Tmac897]

Some after market tie rod ends are different overall length and depth of thread to OEM parts. I found out the hard way with a pair front eBay.
Compare them to one’s your removed.

Thanks for the info.

[Tmac897]

I want to wrap up this thread with the solution that works best for me. I finally found the original tie rod ends that were on the car when last road worthy.

Important safety tip: Never let your wife “tidy up” your garage without adult supervision. I still can’t find that pesky shift lever…

Anyway, when I compared the old ones to the new, I saw that the old ones had been shortened by about 1/4” each. I put those back on the car and verified that I could align the wheels to achieve slight toe in. Now all I have to do is cut the new ones down and install.

I’ve included a pic. Hope this helps someone in a similar situation.

Best,
Tony

[Sadbrewer]

When you cut them down remember to make sure there is plenty of thread left to go into, don't have them hanging on just a couple of turns.

[Tmac897]

When you cut them down remember to make sure there is plenty of thread left to go into, don't have them hanging on just a couple of turns.

There’s probably 2” of thread to begin with. It goes almost all the way into the sleeve.

[Sadbrewer]

Great stuff !!!